Bad news from the stars

850cmndo · Apr 13, 2016

I'm missing where NKN is located, but should he decide to open it up and I'm close?..... I'm there.

Biscuit · Apr 13, 2016

850cmndo said:
I'm missing where NKN is located, but should he decide to open it up and I'm close?..... I'm there.

We could all go,,, have a big ol' party.

Nater_Potater · Apr 13, 2016

Judging by how tightly the crank fits the cases, the only place I can envision that wayward nut laying would be around the sump plug. Is this just a reflection, or are there divots on top of the sump plug?

If the nut was laying here, you should be able to see obvious marks around the flywheel through the sump plug hole. 'Got mirror?

Nathan

NKN · Apr 13, 2016

Hehe, looks like almost everybody is on the deck :wink:

850cmndo said:
I'm missing where NKN is located, but should he decide to open it up and I'm close?..... I'm there.

Biscuit said:
850cmndo said:

I'm missing where NKN is located, but should he decide to open it up and I'm close?..... I'm there.

Click to expand...

We could all go,,, have a big ol' party.

Let's go crazy let's get nuts, for sure it will be great, just a little far away, but great, I'm in France :lol: Anyway, if anybody feels to come, you are welcome.

Here are some pics of the sump plug:

And guess what? Tomorrow is bank holiday here :roll:

BTW, is it true that the circlips should be secured by a welding point or something like that?

kommando · Apr 13, 2016

The circlip is not welded, you remove the circlip so you can remove the mesh for cleaning.

lcrken · Apr 13, 2016

Back in the day, the standard way to make sure the clip didn't come out was to put a blob of solder on holding the clip ends to the washer. It was easily removable with a little heat when necessary. Nowdays, an epoxy like JBWeld would probably work just as well. I eventually quite doing that, and just replaced the clip with a heavier duty circlip, the kind that is a flat cross section and has holes in the ears.

Ken

Mr.Sparks · Apr 13, 2016

Mmmmmmm, it sort of resembles a projectile from a grinder jam. It's hard to believe that it could be deformed that much inside the engine without cracking the aluminium cases. Use a borescope/endoscope to have a look inside.

MS850 · Apr 13, 2016

mschmitz57 said:
"I so enjoy rampant speculation!"

Yes, this is fun! A real mystery. Having said that, I'll add more fuel to the inferno.
I don't believe there is sufficient clearance for the crank nuts to back-off without hitting the rod as it spins around.
The nut would have whittled a slot into the rod in short order. It certainly would have made a loud racket that you would have heard.

My money is on 1 of 2 scenarios.
a. the nut fell off the muffler clamp, frame rails, etc into the oil pan
2. the nut fell into the sump during assembly (which is crazy for a pro builder).

I would love to see inside this motor.

This thread has definitely got my attention.
Hows it going to end?

NKN · Apr 14, 2016

lcrken said:
Back in the day, the standard way to make sure the clip didn't come out was to put a blob of solder on holding the clip ends to the washer. It was easily removable with a little heat when necessary. Nowdays, an epoxy like JBWeld would probably work just as well. I eventually quite doing that, and just replaced the clip with a heavier duty circlip, the kind that is a flat cross section and has holes in the ears.

Ken

Thanks Ken, it's the kind of answer I was looking for :wink:

NKN · Apr 14, 2016

MS850 said:
This thread has definitely got my attention.
Hows it going to end?

Who can tell about the far future? What's sure is next step, having a look inside from the drain hole with a thinny USB camera. Thanks Norton, it's a big hole.

Ron L said:
Since it has been only 16 months since the rebuild, have you contacted the shop that did the work? I would think that a reputable shop would want to soften the negative publicity of a loose nut rattling around in the crankcase of an engine they recently rebuilt. The right thing to do is for the shop to open the engine and inspect and repair any damage found! At their own expense, of course.

16 months and, I believe, less than 100 miles, of course I've taught about that and tried to reach them by the email address I've got on the bill, but it's not valid anymore. BTW I think they wouldn't care that much about me when they will learn where I'm living. That's why I'm trying to get in touch with my seller, because he is the guy who was dealing with and payed for the job. But, curiously, he might be in holidays because he's not answering my mails :roll:

NKN · Apr 14, 2016

New in Norton's, my built-in curiosity is looking for something like that, a Norton Commando engine cutaway:

but this way, like a half off of the left side, whole engine of course:

After 10 min of research on g :roll: gle I quit, perhaps one of you have a clue?

swooshdave · Apr 14, 2016

Clue? Either scope it or open it up. Those are your choices.

SteveBorland · Apr 14, 2016

I think this is a sign from the Norton Gods, saying that it's time to get intimately acquainted with the inside of a Commando engine

Onder · Apr 14, 2016

Get the cam. If you think the cam too much dosh down the drain then have at splitting the cases.
You will find action is so much easier than thinking about it.
Now get going and report back.

swooshdave · Apr 14, 2016

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGZ2F1Q?psc=1

For $23 do you really have an excuse not to look at the insides?

BritTwit · Apr 14, 2016

swooshdave said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGZ2F1Q?psc=1

For $23 do you really have an excuse not to look at the insides?

Very neat.
I'm getting one now for sure.
This thread has made me paranoid.

jaydee75 · Apr 14, 2016

swooshdave said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGZ2F1Q?psc=1

For $23 do you really have an excuse not to look at the insides?

Wow, now I can cancel that expensive colonoscopy I had scheduled next month.

Jaydee

NKN · Apr 14, 2016

swooshdave said:
Clue? Either scope it or open it up. Those are your choices.

You're right, I'll do it that way, first scope then open.

SteveBorland said:
I think this is a sign from the Norton Gods, saying that it's time to get intimately acquainted with the inside of a Commando engine

I like that one 8)

swooshdave said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGZ2F1Q?psc=1

For $23 do you really have an excuse not to look at the insides?

Like they are all made in the same place, 2 days before I've ordered that one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111939842547

Onder said:
Get the cam. If you think the cam too much dosh down the drain then have at splitting the cases.
You will find action is so much easier than thinking about it.

I agree with that, practice is much better than theory, but when you do things for the first time, it's better, for me, to think a little before.

Onder said:
Now get going and report back.

I'll try to do it as fast as possible, but here too it's Spring and my wife is waiting for her bike. PB didn't want to turn the picture :roll:

Besides that my daily one needs also some fine ignition tuning after creating a squish band on the well known Siebenrock pistons.

For those interested:

Original Siebenrock piston

Squish band optimized

Coming back to the Norton here is what was in the drain plug, not that much but, as usual, to much blue paste:

BTW what's the trick to get a magnetize drain plug?

850cmndo said:
I'm missing where NKN is located, but should he decide to open it up and I'm close?..... I'm there.

Sorry I forgot you, kind proposal, thanks. I'm sure it could have been nice :wink:

N0rt0nelectr@ · Apr 14, 2016

I was thinking the nut might have been trapped in the sump plug, but the pictures didn't show any damage to the sump plug or filter and retaining parts.

Many years ago I was changing the oil in a friends bike when a snap ring came out! Thinking it was one retaining the wrist pin i plled the engine down for a look see. Looking at the cylinders I could see that one side had been sleeved. I think the previous owner had done something stupid like not getting the snap ring into the groove and it popped out causing all sorts of damage. Did a quick and dirty repair not bothering to even clean the crankcases.
The point of my story is that you can't always know what is going on and taking the time to give it a good looking over would be best.

John in Texas

Brithit · Apr 14, 2016

This thread reminds me of a book by Hughie Hancox, a noted Triumph restorer, and former factory man. Triumph ran a service, where you could ride your bike in, and they would rebuild the top end during business hours, and have it for you at the end of day. One of the favorite pranks they played on new mechanics was to toss a wrist pin clip under a bike prior to start up, knowing whoever worked on it would spot it. Mean bastards, I'll say that for them! Of course, I've been involved in squirting some fresh oil under a friend's recently re-built Indian Chief in a bike shop parking lot, but we fessed up right away. He was the type to go home and tear it apart at once!

Bad news from the stars

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