AMR oil pump cure
- Thread starter seattle##gs
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An engine without the AMR anti-drain valve modification would tend to self-prime the crankshaft after a while due to the leakage through the pump, whereas, with the AMR ball valve, it should not, therefore, it is likely to take much kicking over to prime an empty crank before oil begins to reach the rocker gear if the system hasn't been primed.
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I primed the pump by using a squirt can forcing oil into the rocker feed hole (banjo plus a bit of tubing). A can and a half should fill the crankshaft. I started the motor and no oil was fed into the rocker line to the head and the oil pressure gauge. The motor ran for about 3 seconds and I shut it off.
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That wouldn't prime the actual "pump".
3 seconds would almost certainly not have been long enough.
If the rockers/spindles had some lubrication/assembly lube then they should be capable of operating for more than a few seconds without damage.
Tornado
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But that priming method does not get to crank effectly as oil will run out spindles and rockers fairly quickly at such low pressures and flow rates. Could you not do similar but at the tube coming directly from the pump to just prime the crank?
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I understood "I primed the pump by using a squirt can forcing oil into the rocker feed hole (banjo plus a bit of tubing)." to mean the crank was primed in the usual way by pumping oil into the timing cover rocker feed outlet as shown in Manual Fig. C41 (above) in which case the rocker feed wouldn't normally be connected so all the injected oil will be directed towards the crankshaft.
If, however, the crankpins are left anywhere near BDC then the injected oil is going to drain out after a few hours.
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I filled the crank with oil without moving the crank to TDC. The crank usually stops at BDC when the key is turned off. Tomorrow I will get back on the project, move the pistons to TDC and refill. I am reluctant to remove the oil pump to check for a gasket but because nothing else is showing itself I guess I should. The added headache is that I need to set the ignition and time it all over again.
Shelby-Right
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Or take the plugs out , ignition off and push it in gear around the yard , that should do it .
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I know I'm comparing apples with oranges here, but My Triumph took minutes to start returning oil to the tank after a rebuild.
Yes, it made me very nervous, and yes, I shut it down to investigate a couple of times before I just let it sort itself out by letting it run.
It has an oil pressure warning which also stayed lit for some time - which is more analogous to the Norton, where you're monitoring the feed side.
I aged a little more than usual that day, but the bike was fine.
I'm certainly not advocating letting it run for minutes without evidence of flow, but a few seconds more wouldn't hurt.
As KiwiShane says - if you're not confident, keep kicking until oil appears.
Yes, it made me very nervous, and yes, I shut it down to investigate a couple of times before I just let it sort itself out by letting it run.
It has an oil pressure warning which also stayed lit for some time - which is more analogous to the Norton, where you're monitoring the feed side.
I aged a little more than usual that day, but the bike was fine.
I'm certainly not advocating letting it run for minutes without evidence of flow, but a few seconds more wouldn't hurt.
As KiwiShane says - if you're not confident, keep kicking until oil appears.
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I guess ..
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Update...I removed the AMR oil pump and the modified timing cover, replacing them with a pump and timing cover from an 850. When it started up it took a few seconds for the pressure gauge needle to start rising, then picked up speed past 100 and thunked against the end of the dial. New theory...the OPRV is stuck shut. So, going back to the original problem I can guess that there is something wrong with the OPRV in the first timing cover and it's stuck open, blowing off any and all pressure. However, either case is EXTREMELY rare and two of them, one after the other, is almost unthinkable. But...now to disassemble both OPRVs and have a look-see.
marshg246
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That is rare, especially the stuck open. I just rebuilt an engine that had not run is many years and the valve was stuck (rusted) closed. Fortunately, I disassemble every part when building an engine so I found it before reassembling.
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About 20 years ago my Atlas had the OPRV stick shut for some unknown reason and the resulting high oil pressure inverted the crank seal in the timing cover.
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The answer is...the OPRV was reassembled backwards. Something new every day.....
SteveA
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And the second OPRV?
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the second one, the piston was in correctly and would slide about halfway towards the rear. I think with a cleaning it would come out. It required a lot of effort to take the thing apart, I'm guessing that it was tight enough to seize the piston in the OPRV. No way to really tell.
I started the motor with the first OPRV and got 40 PSI...it should have popped up to around 70. This is a fresh motor. Maybe two minutes total running time. So...what is it now? Rocker spindles are always a possibility...if just one was turned around would it give at least 40 pounds or drop it to zero?
I started the motor with the first OPRV and got 40 PSI...it should have popped up to around 70. This is a fresh motor. Maybe two minutes total running time. So...what is it now? Rocker spindles are always a possibility...if just one was turned around would it give at least 40 pounds or drop it to zero?
marshg246
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Quick test: Start and let the rockers get well oiled. Remove the rocker feed from the engine and screw in an appropriate bolt to seal. Start and check. Don't run long!!! If you don't have an bolt that works, make a replacement for the banjo and use the regular banjo bolt.
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Should it?
Worth checking of course but unless you've added shims to the OPRV (in which case the blow-off pressure should increase by about 5 psi per shim) then there may be nothing wrong.
Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts
Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
marshg246
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Interesting point. AN specifies two shims. 850 parts manual 065988 and 750 parts manual 063402 specify five shims. I've seen supposedly never changed 850s with none. With a cool engine and multi-grade oil, or a hot engine on a hot day, I would expect lower pressure most of the time, but I have no bikes with a gauge so I don't really know. I do know that I install the Don Pender oil pressure switch on all builds and only on a hot day with a hot engine at idle does the light flicker so the pressure at that time is 6-8 psi.Should it?
Worth checking of course but unless you've added shims to the OPRV (in which case the blow-off pressure should increase by about 5 psi per shim) then there may be nothing wrong.
Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts
Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.andover-norton.co.uk
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I expect AN supplies two shims so the fitter can select the appropriate quantity (0 - 2) to give the required relief pressure.
Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts
Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
Yes, the shims were sold in packs of five as part NM.15404 (06-0676 by the 850 Mk3) now available from AN as single items.
I'm guessing the standard factory setting was without shims to give the 45/55 psi stated in the factory manual and two would normally be the maximum required under normal circumstances.
