Aerated oil

Rex,
I would be very leery of using that straight 30W oil for your initial break-in.There are a lot of better alternatives.
Mike
Yours, htown16's and everybody else's input is appreciated and will not be dismissed. The 20W or 30W non-det oil recommendation was received from Matt Rambow and detailed in the cNw engine break in procedure I'm following. In any event, the engine will not be run until the temporary oil press gauge is installed. It's nice to see that the great oil debate continues. Thanks again!
Jerry
 
Last edited:
Yours, htown16's and everybody else's input is appreciated and will not be dismissed. The 20W or 30W non-det oil recommendation was received from Matt Rambow and detailed in the cNw engine break in procedure I'm following. In any event, the engine will not be run until the temporary oil press gauge is installed. It's nice to see that the great oil debate continues. Thanks again!
Jerry
Jerry,
I would be last person to discredit what Matt has said for you break in your new engine.Hope all goes well.
Mike
 
Jerry,
I would be last person to discredit what Matt has said for you break in your new engine.Hope all goes well.
Mike
Not being a journeyman Norton owner, I had to pick a plan and move forward. The way I see it, nobody was discredited. I appreciate all advice. Jerry
 
In the early 70s I lived near a refinery. With gas wars, premium was about $0.24/gal and re-refined 30W or 40W was about $0.11/quart. I ran re-refined 40W in summer and 30W in winter in my Triumph T100R. Re-refined oil has no additives. In later years, I ran 40W year-round. A few years ago I took the engine apart figuring on a re-bore. It was still in spec so just put it back together with new rings and a light hone. Yes, I know that a Triumph 500 runs much cooler than a Norton so it might be a bad idea for a Norton to run single-grade oil.

Today, in all bikes, I use Castrol GTX Conventional 20W50 at the first oil change and the "Classic" version as the first oil from rebuild. The value in multigrade oil is that it conforms itself to the temperature, but in reality, that's a "Nice to Have" IMHO.
 
In the early 70s I lived near a refinery. With gas wars, premium was about $0.24/gal and re-refined 30W or 40W was about $0.11/quart. I ran re-refined 40W in summer and 30W in winter in my Triumph T100R. Re-refined oil has no additives. In later years, I ran 40W year-round. A few years ago I took the engine apart figuring on a re-bore. It was still in spec so just put it back together with new rings and a light hone. Yes, I know that a Triumph 500 runs much cooler than a Norton so it might be a bad idea for a Norton to run single-grade oil.

Today, in all bikes, I use Castrol GTX Conventional 20W50 at the first oil change and the "Classic" version as the first oil from rebuild. The value in multigrade oil is that it conforms itself to the temperature, but in reality, that's a "Nice to Have" IMHO.
I'm not sure I follow you Greg, when do you use the conventional? I have Classic in my commando now and used GTX regular quite a bit in the old days but am not sure I would use it on a flat tappet engine now since most of the ZDDP has been removed. Just trying to understand your reasoning as I may have overlooked something.
 
I'm not sure I follow you Greg, when do you use the conventional? I have Classic in my commando now and used GTX regular quite a bit in the old days but am not sure I would use it on a flat tappet engine now since most of the ZDDP has been removed. Just trying to understand your reasoning as I may have overlooked something.
When I build a bike, I fill it with Conventional Classic (high Zinc). From the first oil change on, I use standard Conventional GTX.

Both standard and Classic now come in Conventional and Synthetic - I use only Conventional.

My reasoning is that standard GTX was good enough when then bike was new so it's fine now. I like the extra Zinc for break in, but see no need for the extra expense once broken in. Also, if I had no Classic, I wouldn't be too concerned - standard was good for MANY years.

Aerated oil
 
When I build a bike, I fill it with Conventional Classic (high Zinc). From the first oil change on, I use standard Conventional GTX.

Both standard and Classic now come in Conventional and Synthetic - I use only Conventional.

My reasoning is that standard GTX was good enough when then bike was new so it's fine now. I like the extra Zinc for break in, but see no need for the extra expense once broken in. Also, if I had no Classic, I wouldn't be too concerned - standard was good for MANY years.

View attachment 117719
The concern I have is that I believe, but have no direct proof, that over the years Castrol GTX has had a lot of its additive package changed over the years to allow it to be used in cars with catalytic converters, a concern that did not exist in the early 1970s. I am by no means an expert but the more recent gtx products are sn or sp rated while classic is sj. classic has zddp greater than 1000ppm. gtx as a sn or sp oil must have less then 800ppm to comply with this rating. Basically from SL formulations to SM and later formulations, Zinc additives were halved and detergents were substantially increased due to EPA mandates. Castrol GTX back in the day had way more zinc than it does today and Classic is more equivalent to that older formulation than GTX is today.

I have stopped using sm or sn oil in flat tappet engines for this reason and use SJ, SL or one of the HDEOs like Rotella T6.
 
The concern I have is that I believe, but have no direct proof, that over the years Castrol GTX has had a lot of its additive package changed over the years to allow it to be used in cars with catalytic converters, a concern that did not exist in the early 1970s. I am by no means an expert but the more recent gtx products are sn or sp rated while classic is sj. classic has zddp greater than 1000ppm. gtx as a sn or sp oil must have less then 800ppm to comply with this rating. Basically from SL formulations to SM and later formulations, Zinc additives were halved and detergents were substantially increased due to EPA mandates. Castrol GTX back in the day had way more zinc than it does today and Classic is more equivalent to that older formulation than GTX is today.

I have stopped using sm or sn oil in flat tappet engines for this reason and use SJ, SL or one of the HDEOs like Rotella T6.
See: https://www.accessnorton.com/Oil-Tests/NortonOil.php While Castrol GTX is not near the top of the list, it is much higher than Rotella T6.

I see zero difference in oil needs based solid tappet type for the street. Norton (flat tappets) Triumph (radiused tappets).

I have no issue with using Conventional GTX Classic all the time except for the price and availability.

I do not use synthetic oil in air-cooled, vintage engines.
 
As the term flat tappet is used in the automotive industry it referes to non-roller cam followers which is basically all motorcycle engines. Thus for this purpose, triumphs are considered flat, as opposed to roller tappet, engines.
 
As the term flat tappet is used in the automotive industry it referes to non-roller cam followers which is basically all motorcycle engines. Thus for this purpose, triumphs are considered flat, as opposed to roller tappet, engines.
So, your name for solid lifters is flat tappets? How about hydraulic lifters that are not roller lifters? I quit rebuilding car engines when street cars still used solid lifters or non-roller hydraulic lifters. I've personally never heard of flat tappets other than related to Norton engines, so I searched. There are thousands of hits that show flat tappets as non roller tappets and having both ends flat (or the cam end slightly radiuses) - that is not a Norton tappet.

This is much like the Triple Tree/Triple Clamp/Yoke discussion.

This tangent is getting to be yet another oil thread so I'm out.
 
Did somebody say oil thread... Dog pile!!

I use Lucas synthetic gear oil in the TTi 5-speed gearbox. I can't remember if I ever tried synthetic oil in the Norton engine oil tank. It has Lucas hot rod and classic high zinc 10-40 and a splash of 20-50 conventional.

One place synthetic did not work was when I tried it in the primary like a moron. Made my clutch slip. Started the last straw syndrome with the old 3 spring clutch.

The Lucas oil in the Norton oil tank has tiny bubbles in it after a ride. Hasn't blown up yet and the engine gets over rev'd in 2nd gear cuz I can't act like an adult all the time.
 
This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors.

There are normal visitors here?
 
Did somebody say oil thread... Dog pile!!

I use Lucas synthetic gear oil in the TTi 5-speed gearbox. I can't remember if I ever tried synthetic oil in the Norton engine oil tank. It has Lucas hot rod and classic high zinc 10-40 and a splash of 20-50 conventional.

One place synthetic did not work was when I tried it in the primary like a moron. Made my clutch slip. Started the last straw syndrome with the old 3 spring clutch.

The Lucas oil in the Norton oil tank has tiny bubbles in it after a ride. Hasn't blown up yet and the engine gets over rev'd in 2nd gear cuz I can't act like an adult all the time.
Gawd......................Please forgive me. I'm more sorry than ever for starting this thread.
 
I view an oil pressure Bowden gauge as a temporary test instrument.

You could argue that an electric one is pretty safe from acute leaks.
I've had both Smiths oil pressure and oil temperature gauges on my Interstate for over 40 years, I view them as long-term fittings, I like the reassurance they give me.
 
Back
Top