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961 Video

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by RennieK, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. daveh

    daveh

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    It's not easy to find details of the internals of the 961. Does anyone have such information? E.g. primary drive, pistons, cylinder head, gearbox, etc. I saw an exploded view of the engine on one web site but it was tiny and I could not zoom in.

    I reckon the new Commando not only looks great but should also be able to hold its own on twisty roads, except that it might have a problem with ground clearance at high angles of lean. 80 HP should be adequate for most situations except for fast motorway work and track days.
     
  2. skinthespin

    skinthespin

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    I did the resevoirs---lol

    I like them and nothing divided opinion at the bike show more than those! We will offer a number of accessory options, including an integral option, although a bit 'bandit' for me a lot of people seem to like them, so we will offer them, as after all we are small enough to react quickly to customer feedback. We will also offer an anodised billet option and a chrome option so all tates should be covered!

    The silencers look low on the video as there is a dip on the apex of the corner which compressed the suspension, on the road its not a problem but again we will offer a higher system that will most likely be standard on the cafe racer.

    We tried really hard to hide all the cables pipes and wires to keep the side profile as 'clean' as we can and keep it visually light, nice to see you guys have noticed!

    What engine details did you want anyway mate, maybe I can help?

    Interesting green option there, just so you know we can paint your commando any colour you want, if it doesnt cost us any extra we wont pass that cost either.

    Cheers guys

    Simon
     
  3. daveh

    daveh

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Hi Simon — I haven't had an opportunity to see the bike in the flesh as yet. Just curious to know, for example, how is the primary drive operated — gear or chain? Where is the counterbalancing shaft and how is it driven? Does the crank run on ball or rolling element bearings or does it have plain bearings, and is there a central main bearing? Does it have a single camshaft or two (front/rear) and how is the camshaft driven? What type of combustion chamber does it have? What type of oil pump and how and from where is it driven? How does the engine breathe? Do the engine and gearbox share the same oil? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I'm intrigued.

    Dave
     
  4. skinthespin

    skinthespin

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Blimey Dave - lol, right here goes:

    Primary drive drives the balance shaft which is gear driven, this gear then drives the ring gear on the back of the clutch basket. Crank runs on ball bearings, and there is a centre plate with a bearing also. It has only one camshaft located at the front of the engine which is chain drven, this then obviously operates the pushrods. Not sure on the combustion chamber. Oil pump is gear driven and on the RH side of the engine, the pump itself is to our own design. Gearbox and engine have separate oil at the moment but we are looking at changing that. The engine has a crank breather and a rocker cover breather, both of which go back to the oil tank in the frame, all fairly simple stuff!

    HTH
     
  5. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Now we have to wait for Jim to make a gear drive for this camshaft too. :mrgreen:
     
  6. daveh

    daveh

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Simon — thanks for the engine details. As you will have noticed, many of us on this forum are more involved in mechanics than your average motorcyclist because, as owners of original Commandos, we have to be! :mrgreen:
     
  7. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Does it still look kinda like this?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  8. skinthespin

    skinthespin

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    No matey not at all, the gear trees look similar but everything else looks quite different, where are those pics from?

    Ta

    Simon
     
  9. Richard Barks

    Richard Barks

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Hi Simon,

    I've got the jacket, the helmet, the umbrella, the watch,
    when's the bleeding bike coming !!! .
    Silence from Castle Donnington at the moment ?

    Richard
     
  10. Jeandr

    Jeandr

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Ken, you must have a doctorate in teasing, now cut the crap and tell everyone what it is :!: :!: :!:

    I can already see it has 6 speeds, a center main, forged crank cheeks, pressed together crank, a nice alternator, Carillo rods??

    Who made it :?:

    :oops: Now that my brain is back on I just re-read, it's the new Norton :oops: :oops: I will go watch Tv again and turn it to mush like it's supposed to be :wink:

    Jean
     
  11. skinthespin

    skinthespin

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Hi Richard,

    Bike is final throws of development, its partly my fault as Stuart is straining at the leash to get bikes out the door but I want to make sure the thing is as right as it can be before we let them out, I know its frustrating but can assure you were working flat out to make sure the bike is good as I am so aware that turning out a poor bike would be very bad for Norton, I hope you can have patience with us! If you ever want an update feel free to call me or send me a mail.

    Hope this is ok!

    Thanks

    Simon
     
  12. Richard Barks

    Richard Barks

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Thank for the update , but with my business head on I have
    always found that telling the customer straight either with good
    news or not so good news is always the best policy .
    That bit of news could have been emailed to me and the rest of
    your customers on a monthly basis, people I have found will
    always give you a bit of leeway if you are upfront and keep them
    informed my email , the mushroom method of keeping people in
    dark and shoveling them a bit of shit occasionaly never works.
    My email is ( what else ! ) Richard@nortonbike.com
    However I undertand ( a bit ) the problems launching a new and
    exciting norton will take time and I for one will wait as long as
    it takes

    Richard
     
  13. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    What is up with the master cylinder reserves? :mrgreen:
     
  14. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
  15. Richard Barks

    Richard Barks

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    well spotted on the caliper,
    got a letter fron Norton today, my 961 SE will be built and delivered in the next six weeks.
    Very strange to ring up the factory and hear the words " Norton Motorcycles " on the other end.
    if i could work that photo bucket i would post some photo's i ran out of patience after 30 seconds of reading how to do it....
     
  16. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Spotted by someone else on another message board, so I deseve no credit.


    If you are able to e-mail the photos to me, then I will gladly post them here for you (contact me through the site's PM or e-mail service if you are interested)?
     
  17. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Simon,

    I think the new 961 makes a considerable visual impact overall. Just the fact that it’s a vertical twin with vertically split cases raises my interest. You folks are definitely on the right track. Could you provide some insight as to why certain design decisions were made on the 961?

    Why was the shift lever placed right in the middle of the primary cover? The Dreer prototypes had the shift shaft at the bottom of the primary. The primary is quite beautiful and should be viewed without the obstruction of the shift lever, IMO.

    The Dreer prototypes incorporated a gear drive for the camshaft. Why does the 961 use chain drive? Would not a gear driven camshaft improve long term reliability? Was this a “cost of assembly on the production line” issue?

    Finally, I live in the NYC area in the US. On January 22nd 2010 the 2010 Cycle World International Motorcycle Show will be held. Does Norton have any plans to present the 961 at the show along with the other manufacturers?

    I’m looking forward to seeing the 961 in the flesh, and hoping that this new endeavor is successful in resurrecting a great old brand.
     
  18. skinthespin

    skinthespin

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Hi BritTwit,

    Thanks for the comments, there is a bit of history as to why some decisions were taken, when we picked the project up although lots of engineering needed doing Kennys guys had already done alot of development, for example there were several US versions of the engine, one of which had the shift at the bottom of the engine and used a linkage, the US guys moved this to where we have it today, the same position as the last Kenny Dreer prototype, we agreed this was the best position for it when you consider the internal layout of the engine and gearbox, although I was keen to use a linkage as it improves gear shift quality generally (but that layout looked cumbersome and ruined the look of the engine).

    Again the US guys changed the gear driven cam drive for a chain, this was done to reduce noise as the gears were small and there wasn't really space for a back lash eliminator.

    We have no plans to go to the Cycle World show unless our US distributor is taking the bikes on our behalf, maybe you could contact him? Its Matt Capri at South Bay Triumph.

    Cheers

    Simon
     
  19. Coco

    Coco

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Ha ha. That is exactly what I thought. How could a bike that expensive have crappy little plastic reservoirs that look like a complete after thought. At least make a nice mount with a billet cap or something. Those are a total eyesore.
     
  20. BritTwit

    BritTwit

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Great. I know Carlos at South Bay

    Thanks very much Simon
     

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