961 is back !

norton_rider said:

Hi @John Hogan , just want to say it's great to see you on the forum an it has to be said this is one of the most active for Norton's as I said to the Social Media team at motorcycle live it's very important to look after the existing 961 owners as those of us that are potential 961 or Norton owners move in the same circles, as someone that rides a 1967 650 SS as a daily rider (no car) as well as other vintage Norton's inc a 1927 flat tanker through last winter an firmly believes in what the brand was and used to stand for back in the 1920's it's good to see the brand back, on another note as I mentioned to the social media team when they grabbed me at motorcycle live as someone who very nearly bought a 961 mark II under the SG Regime (only the increase in finance rate that stopped me at the time)

I've got a few questions if that's ok, one thing I didn't look at closely was the wheels at ML have the hub been updated to stop the cracking issue that a few people have been experiencing?

As a younger rider in my 30s who grafted to get the classics I just wanna say it'd be great to see some more affordable bikes from Norton I know I've said it in the past but the balance in the range even back to the 20s with the big 4. I know everyone's chasing down the electric route but having said that it felt like a miss that the 650's were dropped I was very tempted by those when they were initially announced.

I tend to keep one modern bike in the workshop for my modern no claims an as a just incase, at the moment that's a GS 1200TE Rallye which hasn't turned a wheel in a month as I've been riding the 650ss Norton from 67' daily, for the adv fix I'd love to have a Norton ADV bike to go along with the 650ss which I use through the winter etc. (owned 28 different bikes blades, race bikes, gsx-rs and a fair few Triumphs.

For me I'd like to see a very lightweight range of bikes drop some of the weight out of them as that'd translate to the superb handling bikes I've experiences through the Norton era from 1927 to 1968.

A very lithe 750 Commando as that's always such a sweet CC point with a 360 degree firing order everyone's gone 270 mad I think the biggest thing I'd like to see is a bike to rival the Himalayan but with more poke two nice bits of history to use for it the 16h or big 4. I'd deffo keep the 961's though thing's of beauty. The V4 from my personal perspective holds no interest since I've experienced adv's but everyone is different

That's my thought's anyway as a nearly 961 owner and someone who lives and breathes and relies on Norton's as daily transport in my 30s. The biggest thing is getting younger riders onto Nortons something I've tried to encourage on my instagram, but having said that at the moment my next modern bike will be most likley an Enfield as I can flog my GS and buy both dad and I a new Enfield and those Interceptors, Himmy's and Classic 350's seem to be the bikes that are taking away from Triumph in my age group.

Oh an a kickstart can't beat the visceral feel of it that's my thoughts.

Best of British luck to everyone at the new Norton,

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John Hogan said:

Thanks for the welcome. There is most definitely a plan with regard to parts and availability for (pre TVS era) 961 owners. Based on what I understand of it, it'll be operational in Q1-2 2023. I can absolutely understand the frustration felt by Voodoo, who I shared a few emails with (posted on a separate thread). The issue that I'm trying to manage from a comms perspective is not repeating the past for Norton, saying something is going to happen on a particular date that then doesn't isn't something I want to happen. As soon as there's more detail on this, I'll share the details on here. The take away from this question is that there is an intention to make parts available and those parts will be available in the first half of 2023. Adding more detail than this at this time would be foolish in my opinion.

In terms of changes to the 961

1	Engine Calibration - Remapped	The engine has been extensively remapped, removing a number of issues and improving overall rideability.
2	Crankcase Breather Improvement	Changes have been made to the crankcase breather system for phase 1 to reduce the amount of oil carry over during sustained high speed running.
3	Inlet and Exhaust Valves Polished	The Head area of the inlet and exhaust valves has been polished, resulting in a more robust valve which also is less prone to accumulating carbon. Less carbon build-up results is better airflow and therefore performance.
4	Cam Chain Guide Tensioner	The cam chain guide design has been improved, removing the previous issue whereby the bolts would relax, possibly causing engine stoppage or damage.
5	Hardened Camshaft	Harder camshaft fitted to phase 1 bikes.
6	Hardened Tappet Retention Pins	The tappet retention pins have been hardened and the geometry improved to provide a more robust retention of the valve tappets.
7	Gear Change Pawl Arm Improved	The hardness of the gear shift pawl arm has been increased. Reducing the likelihood of poor shifting occurring. This was a known issue on the previous bikes.
8	Map Sensor Rubber Isolated	The MAP (manifold pressure) sensor has been rubber isolated. Previously this was 'hard mounted' to the engine, the engine vibrations were then seen to cause periodic sensor failure resulting in poor running.
9	Drive Sprocket Nut Working Loose	A new assembly procedure has been implement to create a more robust bolted joint for the drive sprocket. Reducing the risk of the nut torque relaxing and needing to be retightened.
10	Rocker Assemblies and Shafts	The valve rockers and shafts have been reworked to improve the tolerances and finish.
11	Silencer Mounting Bolts Changed	The mounting bolts for the silencer to the frame have been changed. Previously the lower bolts were too long, causing damage to the silencer body when tightened. The upper bolt was too short, which could result in them coming loose after time.
12	Crank and Balancer Shaft Bearings, bearing locked.	The crank and balancer bearings have been fitted into the crankcases using bearing lock to reduce the risk of slippage and premature wear.

I hope that helps. JH

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Stu Bodycote said:

Ok. finally sat down and behind a proper keyboard. Seems my forum woes are most certainly mobile related....hence not using this forum as much now.

Good to see the factory reaching out to the enthusiasts....reminds me of when Simon Marshall did the same some years ago to some success, and later on Rob also tried to promote an open door policy between owners and the factory...all good things, hope to see more of it. And given the assistance that a select few 961 owners gave Birmingham Norton over dinner, not to mention the wealth of information of customer concerns that has been made available for Birmingham Norton to pick through on here and also the Facebook 961 pages, its great to see an olive branch being extended in this way.

Going onto the list of some of the rerelease 961's revisions...

1. Great, was very much needed. The Donington calibrations did the job, but certainly needed refining. Amongst some of that work, I assume the camshaft sensor acceptable parameters have been broadened to prevent the sporadic eml illumination due to an almost ghost like dtc being recorded from a slight volt drop?

2. Are you able to expand on this at all? Visually, externally it appears identical ie still using the Yamaha R6 aos copy etc?

3. Nice bit of general attention to detail on the engine assembly...good to hear of.

4. Great to see this. I assume you've dropped some steel compression limiters into those nylon chain blocks? We suggested it in Engine Build in 2016, but it fell on deaf ears, shame that.

5. This has not been a concern thats become apparent to me, as of yet. But that being said, the majority of the bikes that I see have barely done 1000 miles. Out of the 961's currently in my workshop, five are under 1000 miles, one is actually on 72 miles and another on 19 miles from new. Maybe it'll be a worry for me in some years though...so I'll keep an eye on that, cheers.

6. As above.

7. Ahh yes. These things have been a problem before. Years ago they were chipping the ends off....then they were bending. I assume a balls up in a revision was the concern? Assuming no changes have been made to the rest of the shift-mech, and these revised parts will retro fit, will the pawl be available separately or will a complete shift-mech have to be purchased?

8. Never known of a single map sensor failure, if on the Yamaha sensor. But interesting to hear of this being a concern, and I'm intrigued to see what changes have been made.

9. Ok, no mention of revised components, just a revised assembly procedure. As this could pretty much be considered a safety critical concern, are you able to advise on what the revised assembly procedure entails?

10. Yes, this is of interest to me....and without doubt a few on here. I know Birmingham Norton were interested in reviewing the Thiel Motorsport upgraded 961 rocker assemblies, and with good reason too as Ollies stuff is always top shelf....but can you give more details with regards your own revised rockers, and again, will these parts be available and will they retrofit to the 961's assembled at Donington?

11. Sorry John, this has confused me. Which bolts do you mean. Any pics, as I cant visualise what you're actually referring to?

12. Always was the case. Sub-assembly procedure for the crank cases was to heat at 65 degrees for 5min before fitting the bearings, with Threebond 1375B applied to the external of the bearing outer race.

Anything done with the clocks, to address the parasitic drain concern that has plagued these bikes since their release? It was half addressed with the euro4 bikes came out, by moving the tacho's permanent feed to the ecu shut down relay, which effectively halved the problem....but the speedo is still sapping power when the bike is laid up.

Noticed the switch to a slightly different design oil cooler, looking much like Kenny Dreers original, and a nicely designed revised mounting bracket for the same. Was the revised cooler purely to address the problem of hitting the mudguard at full suspension compression, or was there also a cooling improvement made?

Engine oil capacity, has this stayed at 1.5ltr?

Wheel hubs. A major safety critical concern. Have these been addressed? And if so, will these be made available to purchase, or will a complete wheel have to be bought?

Fuel tanks... Accerbis seem to struggle with Ethanol across various brands (one of my Ducati's is on its third tank now, for example). Has this been reviewed/addressed?

Rider seat base mounting points...revised?

ISCV quality, assembly procedure and mounting...has this been looked at, do you know of?

Battery box problems with fracturing and also lack of support for the tank... I spotted a different fuel tank front fixing whilst snooping around at the NEC, so I assume thats part of a revised battery box. Will this be available to owners of Donington bikes?

There's a whole plethora of questions that I could write here, but we don't want to scare you off posting again....at least give you chance to get settled in first.

As you're aware, last month I booked a road test on a new Commando, but unfortunately you informed me of its cancellation 24hr's later. This was a real shame as not only was I intrigued as to how the revised bikes rode, but also I had customers also waiting on my feedback. I noted a few weeks there after that your social media team were pushing for test ride bookings again...so I emailed yourself, and got an automated reply from my former colleague, Kate Brown, saying she was out of office but will respond upon her return on the 5th...but unfortunately no further contact was made. Its ok, I get it....no worries....but if a test was to become available in the future, so am I.

Best regards,
Stu

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Voodooo said:

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cliffa said:

They seem to have their facts wrong. It’s not a group of enthusiasts trying to revitalize the brand. Perhaps the Norton HOC should do an interview with them. @John Hogan what do you think?

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Voodooo said:

What enthusiasts would have over $100 million lol

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peebee said:

S.G. ?

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Stephen_Spencer said:

Mmmmmmmm! If this was a recent video, these guys could really have benefitted from spending 10 min on the net finding out what is actually going on at Birmingham Norton before producing this content. Might have saved viewers who have an understanding from rolling their eyes and hitting the ‘pause’ button - before going elsewhere for their motorcycle news!

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BritTwit said:

I liked also in the interview they stated that they plan a V4 "family" beyond the SV and Cafe model.
I hope that means a hooligan/Tuono like model with decent ergos.

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BritTwit said:

I wouldn't be too concerned with two talking heads….

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