850 MkIII Shop Manual & Parts Catalog Errors (2017)

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So, no one can answer the questions I posed in posts #33 & 40? I have finished my edit of the manual. That said, I think I need to go back and double check all the metric conversions mentioned in the text [ie 3/4" 19.05mm] I've found a number of instances where the metric equivalent did not correspond with the inch measurement. I've found well over 100 small errors like that already in the manual. I also corrected the stated threaded hole size in the cylinder head for the exhaust lock rings [aka gland nuts], which hold the exhaust pipes on [thanks to DynoDave]. While I was correcting that error, I checked all the metric equivalents on that page. I found 2 in error, just on that page. This suggests that if I go back and double check, I'm likely to find a lot more. :oops: If anyone would like a copy of the manual, send me PM with your email address.

Charlie
PS Sorry, I meant post 33, not 35. I've now edited the above.
 
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Just out of interest, as an aside, if you manufactured a new cylinder head from the factory blueprint, it wouldn't fit.
 
chaztuna said:
So, no one can answer the questions I posed in posts #35 & 40?
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#40
chaztuna said:
There is a torque table. I have no idea where its' "supposed" to be. I believe it belongs in either section A or B. Can anyone tell me what section it belongs in? What page is should be?
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If you are referring to the page beginning "General Guidance Table - Torque Recommendations" then it's in section A, between the pages with the first words "Rocker shaft" and "Camshaft chain" (as the pages aren't numbered).
 
L.A.B. said:
#40


If you are referring to the page beginning "General Guidance Table - Torque Recommendations" then it's in section A, between the pages with the first words "Rocker shaft" and "Camshaft chain" (as the pages aren't numbered).
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Les,
Thank you. FYI, I made a typo earlier, I meant to type post 33, not 35. I've edited my mistake earlier.
 
OK, Because of the number of bad metric conversions I've found in only a few pages, I decided to go back to section A. I'm double checking "all" the metric conversions in that section. I'm only to the 8th page and I've already found 2 dozen errors! Did anyone do any proof reading of this manual before they printed it up???? :eek: I have another question, on page A8, they quote the torque for the banjo bolts for the overhead oil line as 15 lb./ft. That seems awfully high to me. Can anyone confirm/refute that number? The 14mm spark plugs only get torqued to 15 lb./ft. !

Charlie
PS I guess I'm just a fool for thinking that I could trust the numbers generated in section A. I didn't check them for accuracy during my original edit. :oops:
 
I did an oil change on my Mk 3 last weekend. I noticed in the capacities section at the very end of technical data, the oil quantity is given as 2.8 litres. I found this was not enough, probaby because of the cartridge oil filter on the Mk3. I don't have an earlier manual, but I did wonder if the Mk3 manual has been updated to include the extra 250ml or so taken by the cartridge filter?
 
crusadersports said:
I found this was not enough, probaby because of the cartridge oil filter on the Mk3. I don't have an earlier manual, but I did wonder if the Mk3 manual has been updated to include the extra 250ml or so taken by the cartridge filter?
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The spin-on cartridge filter was there from mid-'72 on. The original capacity still remained unchanged but note that workshop and riders manuals usually state 'oil tank' capacity.
 
crusadersports said:
I did an oil change on my Mk 3 last weekend. I noticed in the capacities section at the very end of technical data, the oil quantity is given as 2.8 litres. I found this was not enough, probably because of the cartridge oil filter on the Mk3. I don't have an earlier manual, but I did wonder if the Mk3 manual has been updated to include the extra 250ml or so taken by the cartridge filter?
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What was the total volume of oil installed? [tank, filter, oil lines & sump] Les is correct that the manual gives oil tank volume. If several owners can agree within reason of the total oil held, I can post that below the oil tank volume.
Charlie
 
Ground control to Major Tom, [Mike Sullivan], Your circuits' dead, there's something wrong. Can you hear me Major Tom? Mike, please check your PM [conversations]. You forgot to give me your email address. I've finished re-editing section A. I found over 20 errors in the conversions from inch to metric in that section. I still have not gotten any answers to the question I posted earlier [post 33 on page 2]. Anyone???

Charlie
 
While actually using my edited & updated Mk III Workshop manual, I think I found another error. The manual states:

SECTION C37
ELECTRIC STARTER MECHANISM
The Mark III Electric Starter is permanently engaged with its' reduction gear train. It only transmits drive to the engine shaft as permitted by a Sprag clutch/ free-wheel. The sprag clutch engages automatically, immediately when the engine starts.

I believe that last sentence is in error. I suspect it's supposed to read:

Upon engaging [perhaps "activating" would be preferable to "engaging"?] the starter, the sprag clutch engages automatically. It disengages immediately when the engine starts.

Am I correct, or way off base?

2nd issue is more of an omission, than an error. Repair of the rear master cylinder entails additional steps, that are not covered in the front master cylinder overhaul. I know that Les has given advice on this subject here. However, that info is not found when searching on that subject.
I suspect that he gave that info in a thread [or threads] relating to someone rebuilding their Mk III. Could someone direct me to the most detailed info on this subject? I'd like to install a link to it, in the manual.
 
chaztuna said:
SECTION C37
ELECTRIC STARTER MECHANISM
The Mark III Electric Starter is permanently engaged with its' reduction gear train. It only transmits drive to the engine shaft as permitted by a Sprag clutch/ free-wheel. The sprag clutch engages automatically, immediately when the engine starts.

I believe that last sentence is in error. I suspect it's supposed to read:

Upon engaging [perhaps "activating" would be preferable to "engaging"?] the starter, the sprag clutch engages automatically. It disengages immediately when the engine starts.

Am I correct, or way off base?
Click to expand...

In my paper copy, it's "disengages" and is all one sentence, and reads differently:

"The Mark III Electric Starter is permanently engaged with its reduction gear-train, but only transmits drive to the engine shaft as permitted by a sprag clutch/free-wheel which disengages automatically immediately when the engine starts."

chaztuna said:
2nd issue is more of an omission, than an error. Repair of the rear master cylinder entails additional steps, that are not covered in the front master cylinder overhaul. I know that Les has given advice on this subject here. However, that info is not found when searching on that subject.
I suspect that he gave that info in a thread [or threads] relating to someone rebuilding their Mk III. Could someone direct me to the most detailed info on this subject? I'd like to install a link to it, in the manual.
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The master cylinder barrel assembly and housing were not available separately at the time (as they are now) which, presumably, is why removal/replacement of the master cylinder barrel assembly isn't covered in the manual, however, the instructions can be found in the Lockheed Service Manual:
 
JimNH said:
So, when you're all done are you going to post the errata so that I can pencil it into my paper manuals?
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Jim, I know that I've already sent you a PDF of the edited manual. I want to thank all the members who have helped me with this project, particularly L.A.B. dynodave, comnoz, kommando, estuary boy, Dances with Sharpnel, MadNorton, grandpaul, madass140 & Torontonian. Besides the errors already mentioned previously, here are some other errors & additional info added:

Corrected numerous errors in Section A. Metric dimension call outs did not match Imperial sizes. FYI, this may simply be an issue with the PDF source I was working from. OCR [optical character reader] software is not 100% accurate.

Added missing steps to remove/dismantle carbs

Added note regarding timing cover mounting screws all being the same length - Fig C32

Added note & hyperlink about Dino Dave clutch Rod seal

Added color illustrations of engine lubrication flow [Fig C29] and front fork oil flow

Added 3 hyperlinks to Section J 26 in regard to upgrading Prestolite starter motor to 4 field windings & 4 brushes

Added hyperlinks to online articles regarding brake caliper and master cylinder overhaul

Corrected erroneous torque setting for gearbox main shaft right side nut

Added note regarding supporting the timing idler gear shaft using Special tool 06-7325 or similar to Section C29 & Section K20.

Added hyperlink for holding the pushrods during head installation

Added 2 hyperlinks with improved cylinder head installation methods - Section C8

Added hyperlink to additional info regarding primary chain automatic tensioner - Section C13

Added hyperlink to Old Britts crankcase splitting tool - Section C16

Added note about resurface hardening the crankshaft after resizing the connecting rod journals - Section C20

Added hyperlink regarding oil pump reconditioning - Sections C24 & 25

Added note to use Crocus Cloth rather than Emery Cloth to polish the crankshaft. - Section C27

Added hyperlink to video on using PlasticGauge

Added hyperlink to Jim Comstock's YouTube video about fitting wrist pin circlips

Added hyperlink to gearbox layshaft bearing replacement info

Added note regarding sealing of intake manifolds to cylinder head

Added note regarding cleaning of air filter element

Added note regarding incorrect dimension called out in Figure F14 [Les B]

Added hyperlink for DIY rear shock spring compressor

Added note with hyperlink to Section F9 & Routine Maintenance Section regarding differences in Octane ratings between Europe & North America

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding retro fitting Pea Shooter silencers to the Mk III in Section F17

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding alternate method of securing exhaust pipes to cylinder head in Section F18

Added color versions of Figures G2 & G3 [Les B]

Added 13 hyperlinks to Section H

Added Battery upgrade hyperlink to Section J 5

Added hyperlink to Section J 7 info regarding early and late charging system warning light assimilators

Added hyperlinks to Section J 23 regarding installation of air horns to replace the lame stock horn

These were added/fixed two years ago with my original edit
 
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estuary boy pointed out the errors in Figures D06 & D08 [Section D12]. Might anyone be able to furnish me with photos showing correct versions of these two erroneous drawings?
 
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Have you posted this somewhere so a link can be added to the Tech Info sticky? If not, should do.
 
gortnipper said:
Have you posted this somewhere so a link can be added to the Tech Info sticky? If not, should do.
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This is not a "finished" document. I still need to update Section D12. So far, no one has replied with the info I've requested. I'll be able to correct that myself in about a month, when I overhaul the gearbox in my Mk III project. I spent 2 hours last night, fixing broken hyperlinks and cleaning up some oddly formatted text. 4 years ago, when I started this project, I was teaching myself to use Acrobat Pro. Now I see little formatting errors I made then and fix them as I stumble across them. I also noticed today, that there is no info in the manual regarding how to R&R the air cleaner box. I've added a link to the thread below. However, it's not complete. If anyone as info to add to that thread, please do.

Mk 3 Airbox Installation

If there is a more informative thread on this subject, please tell me of it's whereabouts.

Anyone wishing a free copy, simply PM [conversations] me with your email address.

I have endevoured to include links to the most useful threads on this forum and other Internet sources. Placing those links in the appropriate sections of the manual. Hopefully, that will save people time to find the best info.
 
chaztuna said:
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I have another question. Section K17 mentions that the Mk III fuel tanks are secured at the rear with a cross strap 7 bolts. I know that my first Mk III Roadster used rubber insulators, the strap, nuts & flat washers. In Section F10 figure F19, it shows this. I'm wondering if the Interstate & Hi Rider still used the bolts without insulators in 1975? Is figure F19 correct or not?
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The fuel tank mounting is in Section F10, Figure F19, not Section K17. :eek:
 
Here is an updated list of the edits/additions I've made to the Mk III workshop manual since my last report of February 2021.

Recent Mk III Manual Edits



Fixed error in Section A Capacities for Primary Drive Oil Volume

Updated information regarding recommended brake fluid -Sections A, F, H & K [L.A.B.]

Adjusted Primary Chaincase Oil Volume in Section A [13th page] [L.A.B.]

Fixed multiple dead hyperlinks [DynoDave]

Added book marks to this manual

Added hyperlink for DIY valve spring compressor - Section C1 [Ludwig]

Added note and hyperlink regarding rocker shaft removal - Section C2

Added note not to store the sprag clutch next to the alternator rotor - Section C14 Step 5 [Estuary Boy]

Added note on method to remove a stubborn crankshaft primary chain drive gear without using heat - Section C14 Step 13

Added note to Section C16 - Step 8

Replaced Figure C21 [better quality] in Section C16 -Step 7 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to crankshaft end float info - Section C19

Added note about omitted Figures C26 & C27 in Section C19

Added warning note & note regarding alternate tool to Section C30

Added missing instruction to Section C31 to install a new timing cover gasket. Missing info in all the Commando manuals [Torontonian]

Added note stating that 850 engines use a base gasket rather than Loctite - Section C33 [L.A.B.]

Added Section C33 [previously missing] with note about missing tappet R&R info. Added Old Britts tech article on this subject. [Jaydee 75?]

Added missing page in Section C34 from my source PDF file [L.A.B.}

Added note regarding added Primary drive info - Section C34

Added Primary chain tensioner gasket notation - Section C34 Step 26

Added Primary chain tensioner assembly added hyperlink - Section C34 Figure C47 [NOC]

Replaced Figure C47A with better image [L.A.B.]

Added color photo of points plate & auto advance unit to Section C40

Corrected procedure for removal of gearbox as a unit. Section D7 [L.A.B.]

Added note to Section D9 Step 20

Added notes to Sections D10 & D12 also Added note about errors in figures D06 & D08 [Estuary Boy & Torontonian]

Added Section E11 Remove/Install the air cleaner box instructions.

Added missing information pertaining to removal & installation of the Mk III air filter box. Added hyperlink to thread on Mk III air box assembly -Section E11 [L.A.B.]

Added a hyperlink to Section F4 Step 31 regarding horn installation

Added note regarding incorrect dimension called out in Section F6 Figure F14 [L.A.B.]

Added remember to remove & reinstall the two flat washers on either side of the oil tank bottom mount. Section F10 Step 8 [Torontonian]

Added note & web link to Section F9 regarding difference in Euro and North American octane ratings

Corrected error regarding location of Dzus fastener on the battery side cover & added hyperlink Section F11

Added note and hyperlink to new, improved threaded lock ring P/N 06-5548 - Section H4

Added better exploded view of rear wheel assembly - Section H5

Added link to Lockheed brake manual - How to overhaul the rear master cylinder - Section H10 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to YouTube video Section H12

Added & edited Old Britts Electric Starter Drive Info - Section J

Added & edited Old Britts E Starter Backfire Device Info - Section J

Added 2 notes and 3 hyperlinks regarding the stock horn to Section J23

Added note after Section J16 directing reader to Grant Tiller's color wiring schematic on page 202

Added note about change from 14 to 18 sprag starter sprag clutch - Sections C34 & J [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to Grant Tillers article on Lucas Ignition Coils - Section J11

Fixed errors in Section K5 regarding location of oil separator info

Fixed error in note in Section K8 [Mart UK]




Older [this is a partial list, as I can not remember many of the edits I did in 2018]

Fixed jumbled order of Section A pages in my source document [L.A.B.]

Fixed dozens of errors in the metric equivalent numbers in Section A

Corrected erroneous torque setting for gearbox main shaft right side nut - Sections A & D [L.A.B. & dynodave]

Corrected multiple spelling errors in Section C

Added hyperlink for holding the pushrods during head installation - Section C1 Step 13 updated link 2/22/2021

Added 2 hyperlinks with improved cylinder head installation methods - Section C8 Step 3

Added hyperlink to additional info regarding primary chain automatic tensioner - Section C13

Added note to check crankshaft end play prior to splitting the crankcases - Section C16

Added note to Section C16, Step 8

Added hyperlink to Old Britts crankcase splitting tool - Section C16, Step 18

Clarified text of Section C17

Added hyperlink to forum thread on crankshaft end float - Section C19

Added note about resurface hardening the crankshaft after resizing the connecting rod journals - Section C20

Cleaned up Section C21 - Figure C26 [corrupted during editable conversion]

Added color version of Section C21, Figure C29

Fixed errors in Sections C22 & C26 [L.A.B.]

Added 2 hyperlinks regarding oil pump reconditioning - Sections C24 & C25 [David & Jimbo]

Fixed errors in Section C25 Steps 3 & 4

Added correction note about error in Section C26 - Figure C32

Added note to use Crocus Cloth rather than Emery Cloth to polish the crankshaft. - Section C27

Corrections to Section C27 per MadNorton

Fixed transposed pages in Section C of my source material [L.A.B.]

Added 2 hyperlinks to video on using PlasticGauge - Section C27 fixed dead link 2/22/2021

Added note & hyperlink regarding supporting the timing idler gear shaft using Special tool 06-7325 or similar to Section C29 & Section K20.

Added warning not to rotate engine with timing chain installed without support for idler gear axle - Section C29 Step 10

Added Loctite products to use in Section C33 Step 1

Added hyperlink to Jim Comstock's YouTube video about fitting wrist pin circlips - Section C33 Step 2

Added hyperlink to Jim Comstock's YouTube video on Piston Installation without using ring compressors - Section C33

Added note regarding stronger substitute for clutch locating circlip Section C34 Step 8 [worntorn]

Added note & hyperlink about Dino Dave clutch Rod seal - Section C34 Steps 12

Added note regarding sealing of intake manifolds to cylinder head

Corrected Gearbox Mainshaft to Clutch torque Section C34 Step 17 [dynodave]

Added hyperlink to Section C35 - Clutch [dynodave]

Clarified text in Section C37 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to gearbox layshaft bearing replacement info - Section D5 Step 7 [David]

Corrected Mainshaft nut torque in Section D10 Step 8 [dynodave & L.A.B.]

Added missing steps to remove/dismantle/reassemble carburetors - Section E5 Step 22

Added note regarding cleaning of air filter element - Section E10 [kommando]

Corrected time interval for air filter cleaning and replacement Sections E10, K2 & K3 [kommando]

Added hyperlink for DIY rear shock spring compressor video - Section F7

Added note regarding incorrect dimension called out in Figure F14 Section F6 [L.A.B.]

Added note with hyperlink to Section F9 & Section K Routine Maintenance Section regarding differences in Octane ratings between Europe & North America

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding retro fitting Pea Shooter silencers to the Mk III in Section F18

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding alternate method of securing exhaust pipes to cylinder head in Section F18

Added color versions of Figures G2 & G3 [L.A.B.]

Corrected incorrect thread call out in Section H4 & H5 Step 5

Added 11 hyperlinks to online articles regarding brake caliper and master cylinder overhaul - Sections H9 & H10

Added Battery upgrade hyperlink to Section J 5

Added hyperlink to Section J 7 info regarding early and late charging system warning light assimilators

Added hyperlinks to Section J 23 regarding installation of air horns to replace the lame stock horn

Added 3 hyperlinks to Section J 26 in regard to upgrading Prestolite starter motor to 4 field windings & 4 brushes [dynodave NOC MAP Cycle]

Added note regarding time interval for changing brake fluid - Sections K2, K3 & K12

Added hyperlink to Wikipedia about brake fluids - Section K12



To Do

Section D12 rewrite See request in post #54
 
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Well done, amazing dedication (and version control). Is there a link to the latest version, is it 'hosted' anywhere?
 
Mart UK said:
Wel
Mart UK said:
Well done, amazing dedication (and version control). Is there a link to the latest version, is it 'hosted' anywhere?
Click to expand...

Martin,
Click to expand...
Martin,
I've invited over 60 members via private message to share this manual. More than 40 have accepted. I will be sending out the latest update within a few days. I'm waiting to hear back from the last 8 members I've invited to reply. If anyone else with a 75-77 Mk III wants a copy, send me a private message with your name, user name and email address. It's not "hosted" anywhere, as it's not a finished document. I still need to update Section D12. See my request in post #54. You are already on my email list.
 
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