850 Barn find is running!

Oh ok got me, i should of said 'first' thing to think about is cam seal, as way more common than others. Seal may be good installed but cam surface pitted/worn. It'd take a pretty good leak to back up to flow out wire path instead of just drool out the point drain. This is a funny issue/area to me, as once I discovered what was under that cover after a while of running around and over night trip with Harley locals, found a rag stuffed in there and my novice level thinking, how clever simple them Brits were to keep the English dampness out of the points, but soon realized, nope just local red neck bodge for a bit less mess. If cover is removed to investigate, keep below in mind.

There are 4 things to consider in seal fit of pump to TS cover. oil pump/crankcase wispy gasket, shim under pump nipple, thickness of pump nipple and thickness of TS cover gasket. Here's the recommended combo for all Norton twins below.

Walridge Motors catalog:

Note - Later, thicker Commando type timing cover gasket [06-1092] is recommended for use on all 500-850 twins, but MUST be used in conjunction with oil pump gasket 06-2447 to ensure correct positioning of the oil pump vs timing cover.
Timing Cover all yrs, p/n 06-1092
Oil Pump all yrs, p/n 06-2447
Oil Junction block all yrs p/n 03-2044

Thanks for all of the advice. Haven't had the enthusiasm yet to start tearing into this thing. I'll keep you posted on what I find.

Haven't had the enthusiasm yet to start tearing into this thing.

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Gosh that's so refreshing to read as its a constant drag on my own will power. Truly have been in what I call my Blank BI Starting State, too many times wondering why I ever got involved and how anyone could put in the time and detail to get a full motorcycle assembled and right. Once in a while I read about an issue I've not had, but fairly rarely so check in on these nuance issue posts to stay current on my own mess and encouragement by others actually getting em right, so why oh why can't I?

Blank Brit Iron Staring State, onsets watching or just hearing a washer tumble down open push rod tunnel or crankcase, seeing a broke end of case cover screw still deep in case, using all might and heat and tricks of the trade to get caliper cap off seeing tool steel and steel cap turning to clay like distortions, turning on key to see smoke curling up, see oil spray out in a line 4 feet ahead of barely rolling bike as primary sounds like gravel crusher then siezes, bearing bore that lets bearing drop right out freely stone cold, leaks out machined in special seals...

hobot said:

Oh ok got me, i should of said 'first' thing to think about is cam seal, as way more common than others. Seal may be good installed but cam surface pitted/worn. It'd take a pretty good leak to back up to flow out wire path instead of just drool out the point drain.

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Well, Mo already said, twice, that the oil is not leaking from the points seal.

hobot said:

There are 4 things to consider in seal fit of pump to TS cover. oil pump/crankcase wispy gasket, shim under pump nipple, thickness of pump nipple and thickness of TS cover gasket. Here's the recommended combo for all Norton twins below.

Walridge Motors catalog:

Note - Later, thicker Commando type timing cover gasket [06-1092] is recommended for use on all 500-850 twins, but MUST be used in conjunction with oil pump gasket 06-2447 to ensure correct positioning of the oil pump vs timing cover.


Timing Cover all yrs, p/n 06-1092
Oil Pump all yrs, p/n 06-2447
Oil Junction block all yrs p/n 03-2044

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Yes, OK to use the 06-1092 Commando gasket in place of the T2236 gasket on the earlier models-but not vice-versa provided the 0.010" crush on the pump seal is maintained.
Until the introduction of the oil pump gasket during 1971, the factory added shims behind the oil pump seal to compensate for the additional gasket thickness, and it may be necessary to remove shims when fitting the 06-2447 oil pump gasket to a '69 - early '71 model that previously didn't have one.

The thicker 06-1092 gasket was introduced on the 750 S model in 1969 and the oil pump gasket in 1971 so Mo shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Wow nice find and good choice to just clean her up like you did. On my barn find I should have just put a zipper on it, I have had it together twice and now have it ready for a new set of pistons and a complete head job. Now I am debating splitting the cases just to investigate for my own piece of mind! Ya would have been a great day for the Rock store!

Absolutely beautiful bike.

grandpaul said:

Absolutely beautiful bike.

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+1 with grandpaul !!! I recently paid $1000 for a tank and sidecover set in this "Fireflake Golden Bronze" color ... perhaps we can start a "club within a club" ??? Really like yer bike ...

Talked with Duane at CS this morning about an issue with a couple of parts. Nice Guy. Told him about my situation. One theory he came up with: Since I had oil in the tank for several weeks he suggests that maybe oil leaked down and got in the sump, over pressurized it and blew out a seal. Didn't think to ask if he thought the crank seal or cam seal. After I hung up I got to thinking, if that happened and I had the correct gasket, that area should still be sealed by the gasket, no? I won't bet my life on this but I'm 99% sure they sent me the correct gasket. Almost positive I remember seeing the 2 holes but... just need to pull the damn thing apart to really find out.

BTW I did not replace the grommet off the oil pump but will be ordering a new one.

Mini Mo said:

Talked with Duane at CS this morning about an issue with a couple of parts. Nice Guy. Told him about my situation. One theory he came up with: Since I had oil in the tank for several weeks he suggests that maybe oil leaked down and got in the sump, over pressurized it and blew out a seal. Didn't think to ask if he thought the crank seal or cam seal.

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You've already emphatically stated that the oil is not leaking past the cam seal.

Too much pressure in the sump would not cause the crank seal to blow, just the opposite in fact-unless the seal had been fitted back to front? If the crank seal blows it's usually caused by too much oil pressure.

Mini Mo said:

After I hung up I got to thinking, if that happened and I had the correct gasket, that area should still be sealed by the gasket, no? I won't bet my life on this but I'm 99% sure they sent me the correct gasket. Almost positive I remember seeing the 2 holes but...

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If, as you said, the oil is definitely not leaking out from the cam seal then the only logical way that it can be getting into the wire hole is if there is a problem with the timing cover joint.

Mini Mo said:

just need to pull the damn thing apart to really find out.

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Yes, please hurry up and put an end to this misery...I mean-mystery! :wink:

Them Colorado Nortons stay very well preserved. I found one in Eastern Colorado with but 4200 miles on it almost as nice as yours. All I did was a freshen up to keep it original. Glad you ditched the bars.

L.A.B. said:

Mini Mo said:

Suddenly oil started coming out of the area where the wires for the points run through the case up toward the harness. Not on the points side ( I replaced that seal) but the opposite side. When I pulled those wires through so I could get the timing cover off I did not notice and type of seal or grommet there which when reassembling I thought a bit odd. In fact I've just checked the Andover Norton exploded views for the timing cover and the engine cases again and do not see anything to seal that wiring off. It doesn't look like I'll make the Rock Store tomorrow with it. What did I miss?

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The points wire gallery joint between the timing cover and crankcase should be sealed by the timing cover gasket (the wires pass through a hole in the gasket).

http://www.nortonmotors.de/ANIL/Norton% ... 004&Part=2

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Nice call L.A.B. I guess when you don't know what to look for putting these together this is what can happen. Atlas gasket for my Commando. Making a call tomorrow for a new gasket and pump seal. Thanks for your help on this.

On another note can anyone tell me what these numbers mean, if anything. One is above the right rocker arm cover, the other on left side crankcase.
Thanks for your help on this

Mini Mo said:

On another note can anyone tell me what these numbers mean, if anything. One is above the right rocker arm cover, the other on left side crankcase.
Thanks for your help on this

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"RH10" is a factory cylinder head identification mark.
http://atlanticgreen.com/nhth.htm

The other stamps do not appear to be the usual "factory" markings.

Another star in L.A.B.'s crown.

Dave
69S

The "HM" is a British Government asset stamp ( Her Majesty ).

At some stage the bike has been a Police bike ( or some other government department ), have seen this before on a couple of BSA's.

Josh Cox said:

The "HM" is a British Government asset stamp ( Her Majesty ).

At some stage the bike has been a Police bike ( or some other government department ), have seen this before on a couple of BSA's.

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That would be extremely unlikely for a US machine.

It's probably another Harry's Motors (Denver, Colorado) bike.

newb-with-question-t10756.html

Man you are good! That is where this bike was originally purchased. I have the sales brochure and original sales invoice and they both say Harrys.
Thanks

So where are you Mini Mo? Going to let us in on the secret? LAB is the man.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

So where are you Mini Mo? Going to let us in on the secret? LAB is the man.

Dave
69S

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I live in Thousand Oaks CA. SoCal. Spend time at the Rock Store (RIP Ed) and Santa Paula airport. I can't wait to start riding this bike.

You're in the best place in the US for that bike. I spent a while on the PCH in the 60's on a BSA B33 between Monterey and Santa Barbara. Nice road, at least then. Be careful, but have fun. Love the Norty.

Dave
69S

Mini Mo, I grew up just a few miles north of you in Camarillo. My favorite ride on my CB350 was to take Malibu Canyon road out to where Pepperdine is, go right on the PCH out past Mugu Rock then back to town through the farm country. Great little ride, especially on a Norton where you can just roll into the torque going up and over the hill.