69 "S" Phoenix rises again

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Hi Bruce.
The original tank was plain red and had to be replaced a couple of years ago due to modern fuel damage. The new tank was painted by FD motorcycles to as a near as possible colour from 1970.

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


I agree with Dave and think the oil tank breathing is best left alone. I found the oil blowing problems got better when I didn't fill the oil tank to the highest mark on the dip stick. Somewhere between the two marks seems to be best for me.

Regards Mark.
 
Dave,

I thought I would post a congratulations on the fine work you have done. I have a 69 S, S/N 134717 dated 12/69 waiting for me in Raleigh. I bought my bike in 83 from the friend of a law school roommate who delivered the bike to me in laundry baskets. I rode it all ratted out and cobbled together for years and after leaving it ignored for far too long, have a complete rebuild set up as my summer project. I'm sitting here in China assembling parts and knowledge in preparation for the summers work and your thread has been a great inspiration. I'll post photos and chart my progress as soon as I return in May. You have certainly set a lofty standard.

Thanks

Mike
 
Mike, thanks, take lots of pictures and make a new thread.

If you go through HK, check out DaveM, he has the S that won most improved this last year. Nelson in Charlotte has a blue S also he finished a couple of years ago.

What colour is your S? Do you need lots of parts or just repairs?

Do you know what kind of bike this is? I took it in Peitou, Taiwan in about 1957 or 8.

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


Dave
69S
 
Gents,

I’ve often looked for info on this forum, but I’ve never posted. I’ve never been a forum poster I guess. This particular thread has been so good that I finally registered just to say ‘Hi’.

I own one of these early bikes too, from memory it’s 1322**. I’m not by the bike right now, but will happily find those remaining two digits when I am.

Dave, your resto has been interesting. Cory, I’ve enjoyed your site too.

Previously I covered a lot of miles on a ’72 Roadster. Then I owned a bunch of other Brit bikes, which were never as rewarding as the Norton. So finally picked up a low mileage original ’70. That early 750 motor was so much sweeter and free revving, and with those clean looks -I fell in love.

This bike had the headlight ‘Halo’ and all the other early model stuff, with the small black taillight. It wasn’t long before I started thinking I’d accidentally bought an ‘S’ type, but it was one of those early Roadsters. Now I know how much confusion the first Roadsters cause, and I see many people turn them into S types, because they also think that’s what they’ve got. A shame really, as they’re just as special -and rare.

Anyway, I emigrated, left that bike in storage for 3 years before begrudgingly selling it, and immediately regretted it. Since then I spent 2 more years trying to replace it. Thankfully, I finally stumbled on my current ’69. As I said, it’s a 1322** (something or other) frame/engine/gearbox number bike. The headstock plate is still there and I know it says it was built June ’69, in London. It has the silver metal flake taillight and while the bike looked like a right ugly mongrel when I got it, most of the rare original stuff was still in place. Under some fugly paint was the original Quicksilver metal flake paint on the tank and side panels.

I’ve got an old Norton book by Steve Wilson (a pretty good, thorough author), which lists some useful VIN number info, which I’ll happily share if it’s new info to any one?

I’m sure he will have researched these VIN numbers as carefully as possible:
At 131180 the first Mk II Fastback model was built,
131257 was the very first S type, built in March ‘69.
133668 the Fastback model finally got the ignition points mod etc.
134108 was the first motor built in Wolverhampton.
135088 was the last S type built, apparently.
135140 was the very first Roadster model (with Halo).
141783 was the first of the new Mk III models, meaning the Roadsters lost their Halo and became the more familiar Roadster.

For me it’s interesting that from the first S type at 131257 to the last S type at 135088, even though it’s three thousand-ish numbers, that applied to all of the various Commando models on offer. Not just S types, but the rare R types too, and Fastbacks. Apparently there wasn’t much of a system at Norton; they’d build a small batch of one model, then switch over to another model, with the frame numbers just going up consecutively.

Sorry, this is a really long-winded way of saying that there must have been even less than 3,000-ish S types built. I’ve always guesstimated at 1,000ish 750 ‘S’ models? As apparently they weren’t very popular when new? Just a guess.

I’d love to know how many survive. What are we at here? Was it 15 or so, including mine?
 
Bracebridge Boy,
Thanks for all that info. Your bike makes my S list at 16. I would think they are most likely all originally an S model. I am sure there are many more out there somewhere. Not every Norton owner belongs to this forum, although they should.

I have a list that agrees with your serial numbers completely. Only thing I have to add is the last Fastback MKII, 141717.

Welcome and we need pictures (and a location).

Dave
69S
 
Hello,
I have been reading this forum (and in particular this post) for many weeks, and now I think it is the right moment to add something.

I am typing from Italy and I own a '73 Norton 750 roadster and I have recently bought a '69 Commando S.
So, You can add mine to your list, the VIN is 134435 and it was produced in Dec 69.

Do you have a scheme for decals? I don't know where and if I have to put the recommended oil, oil level, made in england ecc.
 
Hello best7,
Welcome, glad so many S types are showing up. Could you be more specific about your decals? Oil levels etc. can be found in the Riders Handbook which I have posted here http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg28 ... 0Handbook/ I have also posted the fastback (first commando) here http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg28 ... 0Handbook/

The pictures should be good enough quality to print out and read.

As I remember there were no 'Made in England' decals/transfers on the 69/70 S type. Not sure about the R or Roadster.

You can glean a lot of how the bikes looked originally from the Norton brochures here http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... chures.htm

What colour is your S and please pictures?

Dave
69S
 
the color is blu fireflake. Here you can se some pictures.
I have already changed the tank decals and I replaced the Dellorto carbs you see in photo with the correct amal 930.
What do you think about the tank color? Is it possible that it is the original paint? If not is it a close match? Well maybe it is hard to judge the flake colors by picture.

Then, I have the barrel cylinder painted black, I saw on many forums that on the 'S' it should be silver but on '69 fastback it was black, what do you think about it?
I have a bike pump holder welded on the frame near the rear fender, is it right? I have never seen anything like that on other norton here in Italy.

I will soon take and post FAR better photos!


69 "S"  Phoenix rises again



69 "S"  Phoenix rises again
 
The original 69-70 tank and side panels were fiberglass and had a gel coat on them, not paint. If you have paint, it is not the original, but should not be an issue, any fiberglass tank left around is most likely not going to look very good. Unless the one 69750S (Bruce) has his original, it looks pretty good. The tank decal was black with a gold metallic border. They are available from Andover and Old Britts. J&C Miller in NZ have some nice decals, but the gold is not metallic, and they can be painted over with 2-pack paint, not rattle can paint. Here is how my paint and decals turned out. The tank decal is the Miller one, side panel Andover. They are real close to where my originals were, I made tracings of the locations.

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


Yes, the barrel was originally silver, but lots of people paint them black, mine were before this restoration.

Yes, the 69-70 models had small clips welded on the right side of the frame and there should be an indentation on the rear fender just in front of the tail lamp faring to accommodate the pump. The clips and indentation disappeared in 1971.

Dave
69S
 
Dave,

Since you're keeping a list of S models I though of another one to add. It's hanging over the bar at the Quaker State & Lube here in Charlotte. It's fireflake blue and still has the "S" decals on the side panels, though the pipes are long gone. It doesn't appear to be in very good shape, but pretty complete. They have a big bike night there through the summer every Wednesday, but it's pretty much all Harleys and sport bikes with neon. Next time I stop in I'll see if I can get the manager to get a ladder and let me get the number for you.
 
DogT said:
Mike, thanks, take lots of pictures and make a new thread.

If you go through HK, check out DaveM, he has the S that won most improved this last year. Nelson in Charlotte has a blue S also he finished a couple of years ago.

What colour is your S? Do you need lots of parts or just repairs?

Do you know what kind of bike this is? I took it in Peitou, Taiwan in about 1957 or 8.

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


Dave
69S

I'm trying to line up some time to go to the Hong Kong 7's in March so I might take a look for Dave.

The bike is a dark blue right now. Originally it was Fireflake Red with a rough portrait of Walon Jennings hand-painted on one of the side covers. I had to promise the PO that I would not paint over Waylon before he would sell me the bike. I ended up buying new covers, a promise is a promise. Mostly what I need now is a lot of TLC. I put the bike away a few years ago (I'm too embarrassed to say how long) with one cylinder smoking slightly and a small oil leak from the head gasket. In the years since then I have had the Amals sleeved, new wheels laced up by Buchannens and ordered a bevy of new parts are now sitting in Raleigh. THIS IS THE SUMMER I GET THIS MOVING! Photos will follow as soon as I hit the ground back in the US in May.

I''m not sure on the bike in the photo, but I have a guy here in Beijing who has forgotten more about Chinese iron then most folks ever know. He does a hell of a job restoring bikes here and installing BMW engines on Chinese motorcycles.
 
I know very well this video as it is part of an Italian tv series about classic motorbike that I usually watch,

Unfortunately, it is not as interesting as it could be. Anyway I'll make a little translation for you:

At the beginning it says that in 1969 the Norton S was produced and sold.
It was very similar to the fastback for general performances but the tank was smaller (2 gallons). Moreover it had better engine silent-block and rear "girling" shock-absorbers.

In March '70 Commando roadster was presented to the market. It is for sure the most successful Norton.
It was very similar to the S but the chromed ring around the front light was removed and it had different mufflers.
As Commando 'S' was not so successful as expected, its production ended in June'70.
Moreover, the biggest part of Commando 'S' sold in italy were modified into roadster changing mufflers as it was more comfortable especially for passenger.


The first man speaking says that he had always dreamed to own a Norton Commando as he used to see the Commando owners as very proud and very important people. Then he and the other men speak about their experience with Norton commando, where they bought them ecc..

The yellow Norton is actually an 'S'. the owner says that he bought it on e-bay from Uk but he changed the mufflers because he does not like the high pipes.Then he says that it is powerful and he changed a lot of parts and components so he thinks it is now reliable and he will travel with it in the future.


Let me know if you need something else!

here you can see a picture of my '73 Roadster


69 "S"  Phoenix rises again
 
Andrea,
Thanks for that translation. What I liked was everyone was starting their Norton with loafers on.

Nice bikes you have.

Dave
69S
 
Here is an image of my '69 as requested. I had the exhausts made up intentionally with that slight stagger and chose the 750'SS' type handlebars, to suit the pseudo street-scrambler thing. It's still got a few little issues I've got to tackle, but I've done all of the major stuff and it looks how I want it to.

The second image is my previous Commando, a '70 built (early) Roadster model. It was unrestored, even with the original factory 'paint', just the shocks had been changed from stock. Maybe it's of some interest to any early Roadster owners? It fits in with this early model thread.

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


69 "S"  Phoenix rises again
 
Looks good, love the yellow. I still like the flake blue for myself. Thanks,
Dave
69S
 
Here you can see, finally, some pics of my '69 Commando S.
Tank and side covers are fiberglass and they have never been repainted!
Actually I bought the side covers on ebay from USA and they are exactly of the same color as the tank so I suppose that they have both the original color since it is very difficult to match the same fireflake blue.

@Dave, i noticed that you have grey rear wheel hub rubber buffer while i have them black. Which is the right color?

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


69 "S"  Phoenix rises again
 
Wow, Andrea, that is one well preserved S, especially with the original gel coat. The gray rear wheel plugs are the originals I got with the bike. It may be that the replacements are black, or Norton may have used black at some point, I really don't know. I'm sure many of them got lost through the years. I had to soak mine in Meguiar's vinyl/rubber/plastic protectant for months to get them soft. It did wonders for them. I soaked all the rubber parts for over a year while I was working on it. It seems to have saved most of them.

Are you still using the points ignition? Do you have oil leaking out of the hole in the front of the oil tank in the air box?

Dave
69S
 
I put a boyer ignition on the '69 'S' because I had a misfiring problem and I thought it was due to an electric problem. Actually it wasn't. It was a wrong carb setting (clip position). Now I've tried this ignition just for maybe less than 50 miles but it seems that it works well. The motorbike starts at the very first kick and never stalls in traffic or at traffic-lights.

On the '73 roadster I still have the point ignition but the motorbike runs perfectly as well. Honestly, at the moment, I can't notice a difference between boyer ignition and point ignition but I have to say that the '73 roadster was fully restored few years ago, while I don't know nothing about the '69 S engine previous maintenance.

What about you?

Regarding the oil leak, the previous owner used velocity stacks and there was a hosepipe coming out from that hole and there were not oil leaks. I changed the velocity stacks with the air filter and so I removed this hosepipe. I will check if there is oil in the filter but as I just used the motorbike for less than 50 miles maybe it is not indicative yet.


In this picture it is clear that I made a mistake in positioning the side cover decal! It has a wrong inclination!! maybe I will replace it!

69 "S"  Phoenix rises again


69 "S"  Phoenix rises again
 
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