2030 fossil fuel ban costs in the UK

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baz said:
If I had an electric car and had to charge my car at home I'd need a lead that was 2000 yards long :D
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That certainly would be a problem! I'll bite: Why do you park more than a mile from your home? From living in Germany, I understand remote parking, but over a mile?

It would be a problem for apartment or townhouse dwellers here too. A plug-in electric makes much more sense for a single-family homeowner.
 
marshg246 said:
That certainly would be a problem! I'll bite: Why do you park more than a mile from your home? From living in Germany, I understand remote parking, but over a mile?

It would be a problem for apartment or townhouse dwellers here too. A plug-in electric makes much more sense for a single-family homeowner.
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I have no drive
No garage
The streets where I live are parked up by the time I get home from work
Sometimes I can park in the street I live
Ps I was exaggerating about the 2000 yards it'd be more like 250-500 but it feels like 2000 :confused:
 
26 houses in the road where I live, of which 8 have driveways/off road parking. The street we branch off of is nigh on all 1930's one and two bed terraces, the properties not much wider than a car length, and virtually no off road parking. The road has one narrow pavement and is just wide enough for two cars to pass, so once cars park there it's virtually a one way street. Mum works, needs a car... Dad works, needs a car. Kids leave school and get a job and a social life......
It's a clusterf*ck already, without the added joy of overnight charging to come..
 
baz said:
I have no drive
No garage
The streets where I live are parked up by the time I get home from work
Sometimes I can park in the street I live
Ps I was exaggerating about the 2000 yards it'd be more like 250-500 but it feels like 2000 :confused:
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I understand.

My earlier comment about Govt not thinking this through certainly applies. I'm guessing that about half the people in the US have no way in install their own charging station was well. Most can park closer, but if they live in an apartment building or even a townhouse (rowhouse) they have no control over an area to install one. I can imagine the better apartment buildings installing charging stations and charging more rent but most townhouses are owned, not rented.
 
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You British are in way better shape than we Yanks to cope with both air pollution and CO2 build up. You have functioning passenger rail. Oh I know you complain about poor service but here in the States we have neither a functioning Health System nor functioning rail service outside of the Boston - Washington corridor. And, and we have industrial and real estate lobbies that have not only killed public transit but promoted suburban sprawl for the benefit of oil, auto and real estate speculators. Hunt up a copy of the documentary "Taken For a Ride," which examines how the powers that be destroyed what public transit there was in the U.S. in the 1950s. I'm old enough to have watched it happen. Another look at the problem can be found in David Halberstan's "The Powers That Be." It focuses on the development of Los Angeles.

Over a period of decades that enforced trend has made us completely dependent on auto transportation as it's impractical to run public transit in very low density areas. The cure is not more cars running on hydrogen or electricity but fewer cars. To do that our land-use patterns have to change to look more like Europe and the UK of a couple decades ago when I was last there.
 
Thomasa said:
You British are in way better shape than we Yanks to cope with both air pollution and CO2 build up. You have functioning passenger rail. Oh I know you complain about poor service but here in the States we have neither a functioning Health System nor functioning rail service outside of the Boston - Washington corridor. And, and we have industrial and real estate lobbies that have not only killed public transit but promoted suburban sprawl for the benefit of oil, auto and real estate speculators. Hunt up a copy of the documentary "Taken For a Ride," which examines how the powers that be destroyed what public transit there was in the U.S. in the 1950s. I'm old enough to have watched it happen. Another look at the problem can be found in David Halberstan's "The Powers That Be." It focuses on the development of Los Angeles.

Over a period of decades that enforced trend has made us completely dependent on auto transportation as it's impractical to run public transit in very low density areas. The cure is not more cars running on hydrogen or electricity but fewer cars. To do that our land-use patterns have to change to look more like Europe and the UK of a couple decades ago when I was last there.
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Over the decades it has become increasingly clear that families cannot now survive on a single wage earner...times x that out and you have a massive increase of vehicles on the road ways...why because of piss poor infrastructure decisions increased taxation and wages that don't compete with inflation...and families today are no way as big as decade's ago...
 
New Zealand ranked 21st out of 38 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2021. In 2021, New Zealand had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 33.8% compared with the OECD average of 34.1%. In 2020, New Zealand was ranked 22nd out of the 38 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio.

In New Zealand, the average single worker faced a net average tax rate of 19.4% in 2021, compared with the OECD average of 24.6%. In other words, in New Zealand the take-home pay of an average single worker, after tax and benefits, was 80.6% of their gross wage, compared with the OECD average of 75.4%.

Taking into account child related benefits and tax provisions, the employee net average tax rate for an average married worker with two children in New Zealand was 6.5% in 2021, which is the 31st lowest in the OECD, and compares with 13.1% for the OECD average. This means that an average married worker with two children in New Zealand had a take-home pay, after tax and family benefits, of 93.5% of their gross wage, compared to 86.9% for the OECD average.

Yes, this is a cut/paste of OECD facts.

Over 25 yrs vs. USA

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(there were no corporates profit trend data for NZ, but I threw the UK in for fun)

And this is where the problem is...for the last 20 years.

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The Climate Change Cult
Citing the climate crisis, the Los Angeles City Council voted Friday to ban most gas appliances in new construction, a policy that’s expected to result in new homes and businesses coming equipped with electric stoves, clothes dryers, water heaters and furnaces.(copied from attached article)
www.latimes.com

L.A. is banning most gas appliances in new homes. Get ready for electric stoves

Climate change spurred Friday's unanimous vote by the Los Angeles City Council.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
 
KiwiShane said:
Sky News Australia
Subject: Oxfordshire
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That’s very interesting, I’d not heard of the ‘15 minute city’ idea before.

For this idea to work, you actually have to create ‘mini cities’ which provide work, schooling, housing, leisure, provision needs, etc ALL within a 15 minute walk from home.

That requires MAJOR re planning, infrastructure and construction.

The thing about the Oxford plans is they’re doing NONE of this at all. They’re simply taking existing urban areas and ‘fencing them off’. And I can tell you, those areas have nothing like the ‘well rounded’ infrastructure or facilities for this vision. They don’t even have space to build anything either, so honestly I can’t even see how they can achieve their own visionary aims in the long term.

So, even if you support the actual long term vision of the 15 minute city, all they are actually changing is… blocking off some roads!

Which means they are putting in the lifestyle limitations without ANY of the proposed benefits or prerequisites required for their own vision.

Thats my main beef with much of the current push, the main focus is on implementing life changing limitations on ordinary people, without ANY of the actual things required to make the visions work or provide any benefits to people.

The rich will simply move, or pay to find ways around the inconvenience (for example, they can simply get a taxi everywhere as taxis are exempt). The very poor (ie unemployed) will not be effected much either as they don’t really travel regularly anyway. The only people badly effected will be normal working people, parents of school children, etc.

Bottom line for me is clear. If governments are serious about the many green initiatives they are pushing, they simply must start with infrastructure.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
That’s very interesting, I’d not heard of the ‘15 minute city’ idea before.

For this idea to work, you actually have to create ‘mini cities’ which provide work, schooling, housing, leisure, provision needs, etc ALL within a 15 minute walk from home.

That requires MAJOR re planning, infrastructure and construction.

The thing about the Oxford plans is they’re doing NONE of this at all. They’re simply taking existing urban areas and ‘fencing them off’. And I can tell you, those areas have nothing like the ‘well rounded’ infrastructure or facilities for this vision. They don’t even have space to build anything either, so honestly I can’t even see how they can achieve their own visionary aims in the long term.

So, even if you support the actual long term vision of the 15 minute city, all they are actually changing is… blocking off some roads!

Which means they are putting in the lifestyle limitations without ANY of the proposed benefits or prerequisites required for their own vision.

Thats my main beef with much of the current push, the main focus is on implementing life changing limitations on ordinary people, without ANY of the actual things required to make the visions work or provide any benefits to people.

The rich will simply move, or pay to find ways around the inconvenience (for example, they can simply get a taxi everywhere as taxis are exempt). The very poor (ie unemployed) will not be effected much either as they don’t really travel regularly anyway. The only people badly effected will be normal working people, parents of school children, etc.

Bottom line for me is clear. If governments are serious about the many green initiatives they are pushing, they simply must start with infrastructure.
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This council created logistical nightmare will have most common sensible residents up in arms literally
I very much doubt much of this will see the light of day....but if/when you see the toll gate type zone cameras starting to be installed.....start making deflective number plates...:)
Infrastructure is key.👍
 
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KiwiShane said:
Infrastructure is key.👍
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That is becoming more and more clear to me.

IF this whole topic was approached correctly, it could be done as a way to stimulate the economy, create employment, improve peoples lives and livelihoods… AND… protect the environment.

But the current agenda seems to be to protect the environment AT THE EXPENSE of everything else.

I just don’t think that’s necessary.

Or helpful…

As anyone who has ever been involved in any sort of change management (never mind on this scale) will tell you; success is dependant on getting buy-in of the critical mass. And that buy-in is created when people see the ‘win win’ ie ‘what’s in it for me’.

Hence the saying ‘turkeys don’t vote for Christmas’ !

Therefore, well thought out, holistic approaches, STARTING WITH the implementation of the required infrastructure, simply has to be the best way IMO.
 
Your council modeling is very similar to the one in my city...noted..caddie waste food collection bins plus all the other recycling bins required...
I read recently that Turkey may be a in short supply in England for this Christmas as alot needed to be culled due to some disease spread...hope it don't get into the municipal building :)
 
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I glanced through these .visions of the future', and as FE touched upon, can't realistically see how employment/business/industry is going to sit in the mix??
Or are we all to become baristas, car washers or nail technicians?
 
Fast Eddie said:
That is becoming more and more clear to me.

IF this whole topic was approached correctly, it could be done as a way to stimulate the economy, create employment, improve peoples lives and livelihoods… AND… protect the environment.

But the current agenda seems to be to protect the environment AT THE EXPENSE of everything else.

I just don’t think that’s necessary.

Or helpful…

As anyone who has ever been involved in any sort of change management (never mind on this scale) will tell you; success is dependant on getting buy-in of the critical mass. And that buy-in is created when people see the ‘win win’ ie ‘what’s in it for me’.

Hence the saying ‘turkeys don’t vote for Christmas’ !

Therefore, well thought out, holistic approaches, STARTING WITH the implementation of the required infrastructure, simply has to be the best way IMO.
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Speaking on behalf of myself and my unimaginative fascist friends I agree
I just can't see how this could work and I hope it's just some sort of unimaginative hoax!
 
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