1972 ? Commando 750 Serial number

Madnorton · Sep 5, 2015

Totally agree, exports were order of the day back then - the biggest payer and no doubt out biggest debtor, the US. Forthcoming model changes were usually publicized in the spring and thus would affect and come into being on the daft UK new model registration date of August that year, production would have to have occurred before this August date, so a '72 model may have started life from parts in the June or July '71 ready for the UK date of Aug.
Some (most if not all countries but the UK) saw model years as from Jan - Dec and thus the concurrent production of the models, I would bet that that '71 and '72 models were shipped in the same shipments, one to sell straight away and the other to be ready for the Jan release in that country. This is in living memory, and I reckon there are those on both sides of the Atlantic that could easily confirm that this happened in the later half of the year.
Sadly, there is no way of accurately telling when an engine was actually assembled and stamped, which then became the dictat of the model year in which it was fitted, if it was an accurate date, the parts book would say from this date and not from this engine number.
The Roy Bacon book is good, but does not contain all the info, only the major details.

Rohan · Sep 5, 2015

Madnorton said:
The Roy Bacon book is good, but does not contain all the info, only the major details.

Someone has written a fairly good chapter and verse on just ONE model of HD, and the book is about 3 times thicker than all of Mr Bacons writing on Nortons. !
I wouldn't say Roys books were bad or poor in any respect - compared to what was known and published before, they are a VAST advance in history.
I'm sure he could have written more on the subject, but doing them commercially means he has to get paid...

Mr Curzon has written this book on the 650 dommie, but is/was having difficulty finding a publisher.
He seems to think he is going to make $$ out of it, good luck we say, knowing a bit about how publishing works.
Unless it is of mass appeal, and sells well, not many fortunes in it for anyone... ?

L.A.B. · Sep 5, 2015

Rohan said:
LAB is trying to keep it simple. Too simple ?

Perhaps not simple enough?

Rohan said:
The dispatch books may (or may not) show if the factory was building and SHIPPING thousands of +200,000 Commandos,
months in advance of the Jan 72 announcement date. And where they went - ALL to the USA ?

How could they be shipping "thousands" of 200000 series machines when they would only have been making around 250-300 bikes a week in total going by the production figure for 1971?

Rohan said:
And if they were also still building 15 series alongside them and shipping them also in the same timeframe must be of some interest ?

Of interest, yes but doesn't alter anything.

Rohan said:
LAB already told me I was "muddling", but Davids dispatch page proved they WERE still building and shipping them, one at least,
and surviving examples confirm they were earlier spec 71 bikes, not 72's that were wrongly numbered. (?)

You seem to be heading off another direction now, and in answer to the above I didn't say otherwise. Where you seem to be muddled was in assuming 1972 production started at a particular date on the calendar-so therefore all bikes produced from that date forward would be considered to be 1972 production however so far we have not seen one shred of evidence to support this.

Rohan · Sep 5, 2015

L.A.B. said:
Perhaps not simple enough?

I was going to suggest that about you....

Rohan said:
The dispatch books may (or may not) show if the factory was building and SHIPPING thousands of +200,000 Commandos,
months in advance of the Jan 72 announcement date. And where they went - ALL to the USA ?

L.A.B. said:
How could they be shipping "thousands" of 200000 series machines when they would only have been making around 250-300 bikes a week in total going by the production figure for 1971?

Lets see, 250 a week for Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, thats 4 months x 250 per week = 4000 bikes ??

Rohan said:
And if they were also still building 15 series alongside them and shipping them also in the same timeframe must be of some interest ?

L.A.B. said:
Of interest, yes but doesn't alter anything.

Yes, but I suggested it, and you denied it.

Rohan said:
LAB already told me I was "muddling", but Davids dispatch page proved they WERE still building and shipping them, one at least,
and surviving examples confirm they were earlier spec 71 bikes, not 72's that were wrongly numbered. (?)

L.A.B. said:
You seem to be heading off another direction now, and in answer to the above I didn't say otherwise. Where you seem to be muddled was in assuming 1972 production started at a particular date on the calendar-so therefore all bikes produced from that date forward would be considered to be 1972 production however so far we have not seen one shred of evidence to support this.

Read what I actually said - and I asked it as a question.

And, there had to be a date when they started building the 1st 72 spec bike.
They didn't grow on trees in an orchard.

You have got a weird mindset on blocking/denying/stopping this discussion.
Someone with an interest in history could taken it and run with it..

L.A.B. · Sep 5, 2015

Rohan said:
L.A.B. said:

Perhaps not simple enough?

Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that about you....

Too late!

Rohan said:
Lets see, 250 a week for Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, thats 4 months x 250 per week = 4000 bikes ??

Ah I see you've included September now-just to make your wildly exaggerated statement sound slightly more credible. :roll: 4000 bikes for all markets, so not all would have been sent to the US and not all of which would have been 200000 series machines and of course those bikes would have arrived in batches over that three (or four if you must) month period so only September :roll: and October's production would likely have been delivered to the US by January.

Rohan said:
And if they were also still building 15 series alongside them and shipping them also in the same timeframe must be of some interest ?

L.A.B. said:
Of interest, yes but doesn't alter anything.

Rohan said:
Yes, but I suggested it, and you denied it.

:?:

Rohan said:
LAB already told me I was "muddling", but Davids dispatch page proved they WERE still building and shipping them, one at least,
and surviving examples confirm they were earlier spec 71 bikes, not 72's that were wrongly numbered. (?)

L.A.B. said:
You seem to be heading off another direction now, and in answer to the above I didn't say otherwise. Where you seem to be muddled was in assuming 1972 production started at a particular date on the calendar-so therefore all bikes produced from that date forward would be considered to be 1972 production however so far we have not seen one shred of evidence to support this.

Rohan said:
Read what I actually said - and I asked it as a question.

I did, you originally said: "That number would seem to fall somewhere between october 71 and jan 72, which where considered to be next years 72 model."

That isn't a question.

Rohan said:
And there had to be a date when they started building the 1st 72 spec bike.
They didn't grow on trees in an orchard.

You STILL don't get it, do you?

Rohan said:
You have got a weird mindset on blocking/denying/stopping this discussion.
Someone with an interest in history could taken it and run with it..

:?:

Rohan · Sep 5, 2015

You wanna quibble over a few bikes, its still thousands whether we include Sept or not.

Quote the whole of my quote LAB, there is a question mark at the end of the question bit. (!)

L.A.B. said:
You STILL don't get it, do you?

You don't 'get it'.

There HAD to be a date when they built the 1st 1972 spec Commando.
You may not be interested in the history, but some of us are.
If they were already building Combats in Oct 71, then it was (well) before then. (?)

I have in my notebook when we built/tested the 1st 386 computer in our neck of the woods.
It was a big deal back then, its yawn time now...
Some of the Norton factory guys will know when that 1st 72 spec day was, it would have been a noteable.

You musta got out of the wrong side of the bed a few days now LAB ?
Lost your interest in Norton history ?

L.A.B. · Sep 5, 2015

Rohan said:
You wanna quibble over a few bikes, its still thousands whether we include Sept or not.

Hardly "thousands" and certainly not thousands of 200000 series Commandos! :roll:

Rohan said:
Quote the whole of my quote LAB, there is a question mark at the end of the question bit. (!)

You said:
"That number would seem to fall somewhere between october 71 and jan 72, which where considered to be next years 72 model."

Nope, no question mark! Why not go back and edit one in?

L.A.B. said:
You STILL don't get it, do you?

Rohan said:
You don't 'get it'.

There HAD to be a date when they built the 1st 1972 spec Commando.
You may not be interested in the history, but some of us are.
If they were already building Combats in Oct 71, then it was (well) before then. (?)

As I keep trying to tell you, (6 pages and counting) the actual date appears to be irrelevant.

Rohan said:
I have in my notebook when we built/tested the 1st 386 computer in our neck of the woods.
It was a big deal back then, its yawn time now...

:!: :?:

Rohan said:
You musta got out of the wrong side of the bed a few days now LAB ?
Lost your interest in Norton history ?

Rapidly losing the will to live, more like.

Rohan · Sep 5, 2015

L.A.B. said:
As I keep trying to tell you, (6 pages and counting) the actual date appears to be irrelevant.

But WHY do you keep saying that ?
Some of us are interested in the history.

Heck, Tony Curzon has written a whole book on the inside story of the 650 dommies.
If only that depth of info was available for these 72 spec C'dos.

L.A.B. said:
Hardly "thousands" and certainly not thousands of 200000 series Commandos!

It should be thousands of some sort of Commandos, for that time frame, regardless of what they were.

If we saw the full dispatch books, we'd see PRECISELY what VINs they were, which would definitively answer what I've been questioning,
and what you are seemingly only guessing at. :roll:

Rohan said:
I have in my notebook when we built/tested the 1st 386 computer in our neck of the woods.
It was a big deal back then, its yawn time now...

L.A.B. said:
:!: :?:

We had hundreds of them in stock for the official launch, all top secret like.
Everyone who saw them prior had to sign a non-disclosure statement.
(Not sure what would have happened if it had been breached though...)
Can imagine the 72 Commandos may have been somewhat like that, if not a mention of them appeared in the press prior to the announcement.
A look at those dispatch records may reveal all....

Rohan · Sep 5, 2015

L.A.B. said:
You said:
"That number would seem to fall somewhere between october 71 and jan 72, which where considered to be next years 72 model."

Nope, no question mark! Why not go back and edit one in?

My very next words, next post were -

Rohan said:
Several of the many lists around (how can there be so many different versions ?) put 200,001 as at Jan 1972.
What happened to the 3 or 4 months of 1972 production at the end of 1971 ??
Or is that Jan date not correct, and they started making 1972 models in Sept 71.

Perhaps I ommitted that 'officially' word, but you make a mountain out of every molehill...

L.A.B. · Sep 6, 2015

L.A.B. said:
As I keep trying to explain, (6 pages and counting) the actual date appears to be irrelevant.

Rohan said:
But WHY do you keep saying that ?

Because you either don't or won't understand.

Rohan said:
It should be thousands of some sort of Commandos, for that time frame, regardless of what they were.

I see it's now "some sort" instead of "thousands of "2" series". It can't be more than several hundred of any, however you work it out.

Rohan said:
If we saw the full dispatch books, we'd see PRECISELY what VINs they were, which would definitively answer what I've been questioning,
and what you are seemingly only guessing at. :roll:

I keep on saying, the 1972 series started at 200001 which basically makes the production date irrelevant as a start date for the 1972 "production year" as it wouldn't automatically make any bike produced from that date a 1972 model.

Rohan said:
L.A.B. said:

You said:
"That number would seem to fall somewhere between october 71 and jan 72, which where considered to be next years 72 model."

Nope, no question mark! Why not go back and edit one in?

Click to expand...

My very next words, next post were -

Rohan said:

Several of the many lists around (how can there be so many different versions ?) put 200,001 as at Jan 1972.
What happened to the 3 or 4 months of 1972 production at the end of 1971 ??
Or is that Jan date not correct, and they started making 1972 models in Sept 71.

Click to expand...

Ah, next words in the next post now is it! :roll:

So back we go to: 1972-commando-750-serial-number-t16809-15.html#p302747

Or, would you rather talk about computers?

Craig · Sep 6, 2015

Jeez Louise ... 2015 Triumph Tiger 800 on the floor for sale now beside 2016 same bike ... last year Ducati was doing same with Multistrada ...enough ... make peace
Craig

Rohan · Sep 6, 2015

Craig said:
Jeez Louise ... 2015 Triumph Tiger 800 on the floor for sale now beside 2016 same bike ... last year Ducati was doing same with Multistrada ...enough ... make peace
Craig

You can see that, and I can see that, but LAB seems determined to quibble over every little quibble, regardless.
Quibbling over my questions even, which is just bizarre.
He says 250 per week, but then seez that wouldn't total thousands over 3 or 4 months. !!!???!!!

We had quite a useful and informative discussion over exactly the same subject for the 1st 850 model for 1973,
and we leaned quite a lot from that.
But nope, same thing is not going to happen for the 72 models, as far as LAB is concerned.
In spite of which, folks did contribute some useful info, so we have a vague idea of what happened back then.
A good look at the dispatch records may show more detail.

dennisgb · Sep 7, 2015

I've read through this thread and am astounded.

"New" product production changeover's occur all the time. Usually there is no interruption of production as a number of posters have pointed out.

What seems to be creating confusion is a "Release Date". This really makes little difference to production other than calculating inventory to coincide with the release date for the "New" product.

It seems obvious that sales of 71 models continued up until and even beyond the sales of 72 models (overlapping inventory). You can go to motorcycle and auto dealers right now and buy a 2014 model or even a 2013...some small dealers have even older "new" inventory.

Cash from 71 models came in during the production of 72 models...just like it did during the entire 71 model production...or any other year for that matter.

There is no stop in production or inventory at the dealers...or cash flow.

1972 ? Commando 750 Serial number

Madnorton

Rohan

L.A.B.

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Rohan

L.A.B.

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Rohan

L.A.B.

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Rohan

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Craig

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