1972 750 Hi-Rider

quawk said:
Torontonian, Thanks, as these are the kind of tips and advice I'd be wanting and needing if I were to purchase this bike. By the way, I have no idea what the "lay shaft bearing" is in the gear box, and I have no Whitworth British wrenches in my tool box (never have had a need for them) or retainer ring tool or clutch removal tool, but these are things I'll need to consider if I were to proceed with this bike purchase. Thanks to all members that are responding with advice.
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Go For It! These bikes are well supported by the aftermarket industry, so the tools and parts are easy to get and not really an issue.
 
Back to the original query....
A high rider is just a Commando with a front drum brake, smaller tank, ape hangers, ugly seat and a 5" headlight. All things that are easily changed according to taste. Buy it if it runs or gamble that you can make it run.
 
Several responders to my original post have made reference to what is apparently a potential problem with these bikes, the layshaft bearing in the gearbox. I know nothing about this. Can someone explain or elaborate on this issue? From what I've derived from some of the posts is it a failure prone (ball?) bearing, and the fix or upgrade is to replace it with a modern roller bearing? Help please.
 
Here is a 2005 thread on that topic. There are many later threads on the subject as well. I think this thread provides the info needed-

Layshaft bearing

I have owned several Nortons over the years and more than once on a resale the topic of the Layshaft bearing has come up. I have heard many horror stories of this bearing failing and causing rear wheel lock up. The ONLY time this topic has ever come up is when someone is interested in...
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
 
quawk said:
Can someone explain or elaborate on this issue?
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The ball bearing on the layshaft at the back of the gearbox shell fails, but it fails in an odd manner. The cage holding the balls in position collapses leaving the balls free to meet together and then escape as the inner race is free to move. The first sign is the kickstart lever going down of its own accord followed by losing gearshift. Sometimes there is no warning at all except the back wheel locks up, the balls out of captivity can get jammed between the gear teeth locking the rear wheel.

I got the kickstart lever moving, within 5 mins I was left with only 4th gear. I made it home slipping the clutch and also never stopping at red lights etc. When I got the gearbox apart there were mangled bearing balls in the bottom with some split in half. My gears were in good condition somehow.

Its a metric bearing so you just change it to a roller equivalent with C3 clearance and E in the number.

NJ203-C3
 
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Have spent a good deal of time today reading the various posts and video about the layshaft issue. The more you research it gets more confusing as to which bearing is the one to use. Seems members are divided between using the roller bearing or the upgrade ball bearing with the phenolic cage. I get the impression that either one is better than just leaving the original in place. As I mentioned originally, this bike I'm looking at is an original owner '72 750 with 12,0000 miles. Since he mentioned nothing about any gearbox problem, I'd assume (but will ask) this bearing replacement hasn't been performed and with others indicating that around the 10,000 mile mark was common time for failure, this bike may be on borrowed time. It's giving me more to consider about it's purchase. About all the bikes I purchase, to keep cost down, are bought as projects and are more of a hobby than an investment. Don't know where other members are from, but I live in a rural podunk area in the midwest and the reason I and many other locals were exposed to, liked, and/or owned some of the early British bikes (late 60s and 70s) was a small mom and pop bike shop that sold BSAs till they quit building bikes, then sold Triumph till they closed, then sold Norton till they suffered the same fate. Not sure if that chronology was correct but he did sell all 3 different brands at one time or another. After Norton he started selling Moto Guzzi. Same with them in that I'd guess just about nobody around here would own one of those if it hadn't been for him selling them. His shop is R&K Cycle near the small town of Kirkwood, Illinois. Ron Tinkham and his wife Kathy have operated the shop since I was a youngster (and I'm old). Best people ever. His shop is still there but not sure of what exactly is being done there any more, except maybe selling parts. This is in no way meant to be a plug for his shop, nor am I affiliated with him, it's just he's a good guy and owner. Just curious, has anyone ever heard of, been to, or purchased a bike or parts from them? Have kinda gotten off topic here, sorry.
 
Mick Hemmings said he had no issues with a NEW ball bearing. If you use a ball you don't have to dick with shimming a roller.
This is the sort of thing that you MUST inspect and be positive about.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Someone should start a Hi-Rider appreciation society …
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I appreciate them...

When someone else owns them and they don't come around me :D

Same for the disco-ball colors (oops, sorry Nigel). I even own a disco-ball orange set that I've never seen - never opened the box!

I really wish someone would come get the disco-ball blue 69S I have so I didn't have to look at it! You should buy it Nigel to put with your hot rod.

How's that for appreciation :D
 
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quawk said:
Have spent a good deal of time today reading the various posts and video about the layshaft issue. The more you research it gets more confusing as to which bearing is the one to use. Seems members are divided between using the roller bearing or the upgrade ball bearing with the phenolic cage. I get the impression that either one is better than just leaving the original in place. As I mentioned originally, this bike I'm looking at is an original owner '72 750 with 12,0000 miles. Since he mentioned nothing about any gearbox problem, I'd assume (but will ask) this bearing replacement hasn't been performed and with others indicating that around the 10,000 mile mark was common time for failure, this bike may be on borrowed time. It's giving me more to consider about it's purchase. About all the bikes I purchase, to keep cost down, are bought as projects and are more of a hobby than an investment. Don't know where other members are from, but I live in a rural podunk area in the midwest and the reason I and many other locals were exposed to, liked, and/or owned some of the early British bikes (late 60s and 70s) was a small mom and pop bike shop that sold BSAs till they quit building bikes, then sold Triumph till they closed, then sold Norton till they suffered the same fate. Not sure if that chronology was correct but he did sell all 3 different brands at one time or another. After Norton he started selling Moto Guzzi. Same with them in that I'd guess just about nobody around here would own one of those if it hadn't been for him selling them. His shop is R&K Cycle near the small town of Kirkwood, Illinois. Ron Tinkham and his wife Kathy have operated the shop since I was a youngster (and I'm old). Best people ever. His shop is still there but not sure of what exactly is being done there any more, except maybe selling parts. This is in no way meant to be a plug for his shop, nor am I affiliated with him, it's just he's a good guy and owner. Just curious, has anyone ever heard of, been to, or purchased a bike or parts from them? Have kinda gotten off topic here, sorry.
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You have the correct impression, either the roller or the ball bearing replacement will take away one potential way to have a catastrophic GB failure while hurtling down the road. Not doing this swap out is a risk. How much a risk, no one can say for sure. Up to you and your comfort level. I did mine after around 12k miles on the clock....last 4k under my ownership. Original bearing looked fine to my untrained eye, but now I no longer wake up in cold sweats middle of the night, peace of mind knowing the Phenolic BB is in there doing its sweet, sweet goodness....
 
@quawk : Chicago Norton Owners used to be a very active club http://www.cnoc.org/
At one time they used to come up to Grafton WI for our monthly meetings.
As it it looks like they are still active, you might be able to get some hands that have done it information, up close and personal.
 
Deckard said:
Back to the original query....
A high rider is just a Commando with a front drum brake, smaller tank, ape hangers, ugly seat and a 5" headlight. All things that are easily changed according to taste. Buy it if it runs or gamble that you can make it run.
Click to expand...
I think I can speak for most everyone here when I say "we can make it run" it just depends on how much money you want to throw at it. I spent over $4000 on my '66 Triumph T100 and that's without cosmetics and isolastics so be careful of the bride you choose. She may come with a very limited dowry. That said, a very deep clean would be my first order of business. Changing the silly ape hangers would be on my list since I would be changing cables anyway. Then there are all the normal maintenance items like chain, tires, bullet connector inspection, electronic ignition, carb clean and more.

Oh. . . to have a neglected, dirty Norton in the shop just ready to be stripped down. It just makes me smile to think about it.

If the bike was ridden in the 80s it is possible that it had the roller bearing upgrade to the lay shaft. It was a known issue even back then and we did a number of them both failed and prophylactically.
 
You can’t go wrong by getting Mick Hemmings’ Gearbox and Engine DVDs available through the UK based
Norton Owners Club . They may be available from other vendors as well . For a few bucks you can take advantage of one man’s lifetime of knowledge.
 
Norton Hi Rider, Norton Roadster.......Same Dog, different leash. Just change it up to what you want.
 

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I happen to like the look of the Hi Rider tank but since I ride my Norton it would be difficult to live with.
 
On the green Norton: where did that rear guard come from? Admit I had to check the previous pix t make
sure they didn't appear on other Hi Riders.
 
Big_Jim59 said:
I think I can speak for most everyone here when I say "we can make it run" it just depends on how much money you want to throw at it. I spent over $4000 on my '66 Triumph T100 and that's without cosmetics and isolastics so be careful of the bride you choose. She may come with a very limited dowry. That said, a very deep clean would be my first order of business. Changing the silly ape hangers would be on my list since I would be changing cables anyway. Then there are all the normal maintenance items like chain, tires, bullet connector inspection, electronic ignition, carb clean and more.

Oh. . . to have a neglected, dirty Norton in the shop just ready to be stripped down. It just makes me smile to think about it.

If the bike was ridden in the 80s it is possible that it had the roller bearing upgrade to the lay shaft. It was a known issue even back then and we did a number of them both failed and prophylactically.
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Liked the "bride and dowry" reference. Project bikes could be looked at in that fashion. And this bike would be a "neglected, dirty Norton in the shop".
 
Upon doing much research, as I posted earlier, about the layshaft bearing issue, it was mentioned by some that the use of a 22 tooth gearbox drive sprocket was suspected as a culprit contributing to the failure of the bearing, seemingly from increased loading. As an aside to that, it was also mentioned that owners would change drive sprockets to change gearing, rather than the rear sprocket because the rear sprocket was cast into the rear hub and only one tooth count sprocket was available. Have I read that correctly, because that seems so odd? If that's the case what happens when/if the rear sprocket needs replaced? Chains and sprockets are commonly replaced wear items on most bikes.
 
quawk said:
Have just joined and hope I'm posting to the correct section. For my adult lifetime have admired and wanted one of the old British bikes from back in my youth. Have an opportunity to purchase a 1972 750 Hi-Rider. Certainly not my first choice of models I'd like to have. With the oddball apehanger handlebars, and the flared up seat tail seemed like kinda a miscue by Norton, but I realize they were hoping to cash in on the chopper craze of the late 60s. The bike is still in possession of the original owner, has 12,000 miles, and like a million other bikes was "running when parked". Has been parked and not run or ridden since the early to mid 80s. Most of the chrome is in poor shape, the original pea shooter mufflers are gone and were replaced with some unmuffled turnouts, and the owner had installed 3" or 4" over fork legs and the handlebars were tweaked from a fall over at rest. UGHHH. Can members here give me their thoughts on what a fair price would be for this year and model bike in the condition I've described. Something else is in all the other pics I've seen of these bikes, the tank and the side panels were always paint matched, but the tank on this bike is orange, and the small side panels are black. The owner, who seems like a straight shooter to me, claims he bought it new that way. I've owned and worked on many other bikes of many different brands over the years, but never had a British bike of my own. Would appreciate any thoughts, advice, or input from other members with more experience than myself on these bikes.
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Welcome, and "howdy" from Texas.

You've already gotten your money's worth of advice if you signed up for Premium membership. I'm sure you'll take care to post LOTS of photos, this is NOT like Playboy, we come here for the PHOTOS, not the articles...
 

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