Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.

speirmoor

speirmoor

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,748
Country flag
Why won’t it start on the paddock stand but will on the ground? How does it know?
EDIT
Update, now it will start on the stand. I found a blown fuse.
The funny thing is that it started on the ground before I replaced the fuse and then refused again when I put back up on the stand.
All my electrical diagrams are stored on my computer at work so it"ll be tomorrow before I can see how these circuit are related.
 
Last edited:
Probably affects the tilt switch in some way?

Just remembered - mine does start on the stand but my drive slopes downwards so the bike is probably level :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
So now I believe I have must have some electrical gremlins. Found a blown fuse (bottom right as your looking at the fuses from the back of the bike) if I remember correctly). Didnt think much about it as I was troubleshooting the Speedo/Tacho draw a couple of weeks ago and reckoned I must've popped it then somehow. Replaced fuse and got some fresh gas and went for a ride.
All was good for 60mi on quiet roads but when I hit the highway and opened it up there was a stumble at 4K RPM. Thinking it was a once off I speeded up again and it kept happening. Again and again once I get to 3.7-4K RPM the engine would stumble and bog down. Made it home to also find I had no headlight. Changed that blown fuse and went for a short spin to see if that was related to the engine bogging down but alas no.
What would cause the engine to bog down like that ? a sensor? It starts and idles perfectly.
 
The factory map in my bike is set to switch from closed to open loop at 4k. So at 4k+ RPM the ECU will switch from using data from the o2 sensors to relying on its internal fuel map. The ECU will also switch to its internal fuel map at throttle openings greater than 25%. So might be worth seeing what happens if you drop down a couple of gears to see what happens when the engine is operating at a greater than 25% throttle opening between say 3.5k and 4.5k RPM.

Might be a red herring but could be worth looking at if you're still stumped.
 
speirmoor said:
Why won’t it start on the paddock stand but will on the ground? How does it know?
Click to expand...
I’ve started both of my bikes on paddock stands. I’ve done it many times. ( 2016 Commando sf and 2017 Dominator Naked) never have and issue.
Is your side stand down?
 
speirmoor said:
So now I believe I have must have some electrical gremlins. Found a blown fuse (bottom right as your looking at the fuses from the back of the bike) if I remember correctly). Didnt think much about it as I was troubleshooting the Speedo/Tacho draw a couple of weeks ago and reckoned I must've popped it then somehow. Replaced fuse and got some fresh gas and went for a ride.
All was good for 60mi on quiet roads but when I hit the highway and opened it up there was a stumble at 4K RPM. Thinking it was a once off I speeded up again and it kept happening. Again and again once I get to 3.7-4K RPM the engine would stumble and bog down. Made it home to also find I had no headlight. Changed that blown fuse and went for a short spin to see if that was related to the engine bogging down but alas no.
What would cause the engine to bog down like that ? a sensor? It starts and idles perfectly.
Click to expand...
Find out what that fuse protects? The old 3.7 curse. Hope you can find that problem since we don't have any dealerships nearby.
 
I agree with John (Eljah) look at the tilt sensor . The one I examined has two resistors a 3k and a 15k going between the pins . I had a failure before with this. And now I have more than 11,000 miles I think I may need to replace it again. Its only supposed to cut off at extreme angles like when you fall off the bike . There is a way to cheat it , buy replicating the resistances . I happen to have a new one here which I am measuring . There are cheater plugs on the market , which one to use I don't know yet. But I am inclined to get rid of my tilt sensor now. As soon as I can figure which cheater plug I need.

At any rate , the symptom presents itself as a immediate loss of power , like you hit the kill switch and then if you're lucky it will return just as suddenly. I think that the high vibration nature of the 961 engine presents many challenges to the components on the machine . Like the flasher , tilt sensor etc.. There is a metal piece inside like a ball bearing that moves around and is supposed to do the cut off when the bike falls over . I am certain that sustained high speed like the expressway take its toll , not to mention the stiff suspension. I am all for eliminating mine as soon as I can find the correct cheater resistor plug . That damned thing is going to strand me some day !

The stunt riders routinely remove the tip over sensor on their bikes I have read.
 
Last edited:
Tilt sensors seem like a good idea to me in general.

But on bikes ‘of a delicate nature’ like these, it just seems to be including (yet) another unwanted potential failure mode.

Tony, if you suss out the cheater plug, please do let us all know.
 
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.
Everything I said above was from a simple ohms measurement on the new unit. Upon disassembly of the old unit this is what we have :
A magnetic pendulum swinging over U1 and U2 . It may be that the latest tip over sensor has an improved design that may last longer. But this unit has a worn out axle pivot for certain. I will have to trace back the circuit to be sure of its operation. But most 3 connection cheaters use 2 resistors .
 
Last edited:
TonyA said:
I agree with John (Eljah) look at the tilt sensor . The one I examined has two resistors a 3k and a 15k going between the pins . I had a failure before with this. And now I have more than 11,000 miles I think I may need to replace it again. Its only supposed to cut off at extreme angles like when you fall off the bike . There is a way to cheat it , buy replicating the resistances . I happen to have a new one here which I am measuring . There are cheater plugs on the market , which one to use I don't know yet. But I am inclined to get rid of my tilt sensor now. As soon as I can figure which cheater plug I need.

At any rate , the symptom presents itself as a immediate loss of power , like you hit the kill switch and then if you're lucky it will return just as suddenly. I think that the high vibration nature of the 961 engine presents many challenges to the components on the machine . Like the flasher , tilt sensor etc.. There is a metal piece inside like a ball bearing that moves around and is supposed to do the cut off when the bike falls over . I am certain that sustained high speed like the expressway take its toll , not to mention the stiff suspension. I am all for eliminating mine as soon as I can find the correct cheater resistor plug . That damned thing is going to strand me some day !

The stunt riders routinely remove the tip over sensor on their bikes I have read.
Click to expand...
Thats what it feels like, that I'm hitting the rev limiter. Now its happening more and more at low speed. Thing is the box that says "Tilt Sensor" looks very different to yours. Its like a small square box, I'll get a picture tomorrow but imagine 3 After 8's stacked on top of each other
 
iwilson said:
The factory map in my bike is set to switch from closed to open loop at 4k. So at 4k+ RPM the ECU will switch from using data from the o2 sensors to relying on its internal fuel map. The ECU will also switch to its internal fuel map at throttle openings greater than 25%. So might be worth seeing what happens if you drop down a couple of gears to see what happens when the engine is operating at a greater than 25% throttle opening between say 3.5k and 4.5k RPM.

Might be a red herring but could be worth looking at if you're still stumped.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm not grasping at straws (yet) but its happening in all gears all the time now.
 
speirmoor said:
Thats what it feels like, that I'm hitting the rev limiter. Now its happening more and more at low speed. Thing is the box that says "Tilt Sensor" looks very different to yours. Its
Click to expand...

You have the Euro 3 New Omex and a different tilt sensor I suppose. A pictue would be helpful .
 
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.
Bike won’t start on the Paddock stand? and even more weird stuff.

SUSSED ! Does the big blue OK mean anything to you boys !
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
New Harness and Burnt Fuse Holders
Replies
12
Views
653
cash
cash
N
850 Commando won't start, just quit - mid ride.
2
Replies
24
Views
1,273
marshg246
marshg246
C
2019 Norton Commando 961 won't start
2
Replies
31
Views
2,143
Stu Bodycote
Stu Bodycote
Tornado
Hard Starts After Fuel Cutoff
Replies
16
Views
828
Tornado
Tornado
gpzkat
Installing center stand on N15CS - anyone do this and have issues with clearance?
Replies
19
Views
1,075
Hortons Norton
Hortons Norton
Back
Top