Ignition Advice Needed

[DaveinCanada]

Bit of an update. I managed to get power to the rear indicator/signal light housing, but when I flick the toggle up or down, there is not signal flashing. I checked the bulbs with a multimeter and they are fine. I even cleaned out the housings where the bulb goes in.
Also, now I've get a rear light when moving the ignition to the last position (ignition and lights). Never had it before. Just came on today. But still no headlight.

 

[L.A.B.]

I managed to get power to the rear indicator/signal light housing, but when I flick the toggle up or down, there is not signal flashing.

Depending on the type of flasher relay fitted then it may not flash with only one bulb working.

But still no headlight.

The headlight as previously mentioned is (should be) on a different circuit to the other lights. If the tail lamp is now working (assuming it's not the brake light) then so should the pilot light, speedo and tacho bulbs.

 

[DaveinCanada]

@L.A.B. I have power going to both rear signal indicator housings (Checked with a test light) and both bulbs are working and installed. But still no flashing. When bulbs are installed, they don't even come on, regardless of which ignition switch position it's in.

The tail lamp is working in both ignition "on" positions, but still no headlight. I can only get the hi-beam flasher to work when I press the button.

 

[L.A.B.]

I have power going to both rear signal indicator housings (Checked with a test light) and both bulbs are working and installed. But still no flashing.

As previously mentioned, you might need to have both front and rear direction indicators working before they will flash. The bulbs also rely on a good earth/ground to work.

The tail lamp is working in both ignition "on" positions,

It should only be working at the ignition and lights position.

but still no headlight.

As I said it's on a different circuit.

I can only get the hi-beam flasher to work when I press the button.

Yes, because the main beam is being powered by the white wire to the switch cluster so it's a different circuit again.

 

[marshg246]

British bike wiring is not difficult if you realize that there are five separate simple circuits, and you work each one separately. Those are ignition, running lights, headlight, turn signals, and brake light. Let's assume wired as it left the factory. Lets focus on one circuit - turn signals:

For now, remove the two wires from the flasher and connect them together (Light Green/Brown and White) and disconnect the wires to the headlight turn signal indicator light. When you move the handlebar toggle to one side both the front and rear must light on that side. When you switch it to the other side the two on that side must light. They must be standard incandescent turn signal bulbs. The circuit is:

Master Switch Pin 2 > White Wire > flasher (either pin) > flasher other pin > Light Green/Brown wire > Handlebar console Light Green/Brown wire. When the right turn is selected the Green/White wire will have 12 volts and it connects to both turn signals on the right side. When the left turn is selected the Green/Red wire will have 12 volts and it connects to both turn signals on the right side.

If the bulbs don't light as stated, then you either have: bad bulb(s), bad socket(s), miss-wire, bad ground (common on the rear signals), or bad master switch. Correct that before moving on. Once you can select the left or right side and both turn signals on that side light, reconnect the flasher. If the turn signals do not flash, then you have a bad flasher or incorrect bulbs. Once that is fixed, reconnect the headlight turn signal indicator - Green/White to Green/White and Green/Red to Green/Red.

Report back when the turn signals are working and say which circuit you want to work next.

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 I swapped out the headlight from my '73 parts bike and I now have the headlight working at ignition and lights (woohoo!). But my signal indicators are still not working. Here is a pic of the wiring inside my headlight housing. I've also attached a 2nd pic - is this the Flasher you are referring to? If yes, it has a green wire and two white wires (no brown) and it sits under the seat. It's a 2-prong flasher relay.

By the way, my bike does not have front signal indicator lights.

 

[marshg246]

@marshg246 I swapped out the headlight from my '73 parts bike and I now have the headlight working at ignition and lights (woohoo!). But my signal indicators are still not working. Here is a pic of the wiring inside my headlight housing. I've also attached a 2nd pic - is this the Flasher you are referring to? If yes, it has a green wire and two white wires (no brown) and it sits under the seat. It's a 2-prong flasher relay.

By the way, my bike does not have front signal indicator lights.

That is not a Lucas flasher, and I have no idea what it requires. A proper Lucas flasher will NOT cause flashing with only one bulb. Most likely the one you have won't either.

The wires to the flasher are Light Green with a Brown stripe in a spade connector and a spade connector with some number of white wires. The white wire(s) have 12 volts whenever the master switch is in the ignition or ignition/lights position.

What does "my signal indicators are still not working" - on all the time, never on, on when selected, one when selected but not flashing?

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 Do you happen to have the product number for a Lucas flasher, or a pic of it. I read in other forums that any two spade 12V flasher would work.

When the key is in the ignition and lights position, there is power to the signal indicator housing. I removed the bulbs and tested them with a test light. But when I put the bulbs back in they don't light up, even though the test light comes up when I touch it to the lightbulb casing. So, power to the bulbs but the bulb is not lighting up. I read in another thread that it could be because the battery voltage is too low. The bike isn't running, so I'm trying it just off the battery.

 

[marshg246]

@marshg246 Do you happen to have the product number for a Lucas flasher, or a pic of it. I read in other forums that any two spade 12V flasher would work.

When the key is in the ignition and lights position, there is power to the signal indicator housing. I removed the bulbs and tested them with a test light. But when I put the bulbs back in they don't light up, even though the test light comes up when I touch it to the lightbulb casing. So, power to the bulbs but the bulb is not lighting up. I read in another thread that it could be because the battery voltage is too low. The bike isn't running, so I'm trying it just off the battery.

You haven't said what kind of test light. You haven't done what I asked in post #25. Difficult to help you!!!

The signal light housing should show continuity to ground. If your test light detects voltage, then it must NOT show anything between the housing and ground. If your test light shows continuity, then it must show continuity between the housing and ground - completely opposite things!

The 12 volts is at the center connection of the bulb. With the turn signal selected there must be 12 volts between the housing and center connection. Even at 8 volts the bulb will light. Of course, testing with a charged battery is preferrable!

Anyone who made the blanket statement: "any two spade 12V flasher would work" is F.O.S. The part numbers are: OEM: LU35048 (Lucas), 99-1201 (Triumph and Norton via Andover Norton), 60-2604, 19-1079 (BSA), 06-2045 (Norton old number), 60-7217

Non-modern non-electronic flashers work by a opening a the circuit when the internals get hot and the closing again when they cool off. Not having the correct number and wattage of bulbs will ensure that they do not work correctly!!! You will NOT get the flasher to turn off the lights and then turn them back on again if it is and original or compatible flasher with only rear turn signals!!!!!!!

You need to eliminate the flasher as I said in post #25 until you have the wiring and turn signal sockets and grounds tested.

 

[L.A.B.]

I believe it says Tridon HD12 on the flasher relay so it could be an earlier version of this.

HD12 - Flasher Relays - Electro Mechanical | Tridon

www.tridon.com.au

 

[marshg246]

I believe it says Tridon HD12 on the flasher relay so it could be an earlier version of this.

HD12 - Flasher Relays - Electro Mechanical | Tridon

www.tridon.com.au

If so, then it is not compatible with the standard flasher but will work with only rear turn signals but WILL NOT work with standard wiring - the entire turn signal circuit will need to be negative ground if their drawing is correct and it's actually electronic.

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 @L.A.B. First off, thank you both for your advice and input to help out a newbie like myself. It is really appreciated. Thank you for the flasher relay part numbers. My test light is the standard circuit tester tool. (https://www.amazon.ca/INNOVA-3410-L...pcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB).

@marshg246 - Regarding post #25, I have a few questions. Keep in mind that my bike is 1973 (not 1975 as stated in my first post). I'm not sure if this affects the directions given in post #25. How do I connect the 2 wires from the flasher (relay) together? Also you mention "disconnect the wires to the headlight turn signal indicator light". Are those wires in the headlight housing? I don't have front signals on my bike. Again, not sure how that affects your instructions in #25. I will do your test once I get it down right.

@L.A.B - that flasher relay was probably used because I only have rear turn signals. I don't have front turn signals.

 

[L.A.B.]

@L.A.B - that flasher relay was probably used because I only have rear turn signals. I don't have front turn signals.

How about fitting some then as they would normally be there.

 

[DaveinCanada]

How about fitting some then as they would normally be there.

Unfortunately I don't have any available on my parts bike either and ordering them may take a while in Canada. Just going to have to do without them for now.

 

[marshg246]

@marshg246 @L.A.B. First off, thank you both for your advice and input to help out a newbie like myself. It is really appreciated. Thank you for the flasher relay part numbers. My test light is the standard circuit tester tool. (https://www.amazon.ca/INNOVA-3410-L...pcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB).

@marshg246 - Regarding post #25, I have a few questions. Keep in mind that my bike is 1973 (not 1975 as stated in my first post). I'm not sure if this affects the directions given in post #25. How do I connect the 2 wires from the flasher (relay) together? Also you mention "disconnect the wires to the headlight turn signal indicator light". Are those wires in the headlight housing? I don't have front signals on my bike. Again, not sure how that affects your instructions in #25. I will do your test once I get it down right.

OK, that is a voltage tester, not a continuity tester. With the turn signal you are checking selected:
From the housing of the turn signal to the positive of the battery if the tester lights red, you have no ground to the turn signal. If from the center connector of the turn signal socket to the housing of the turn signal if the tester show red, you are good, if not check from the center of the turn signla socket to the battery positive - if it now light red, you have no ground to the turn signal. If it still does not light red, the turn signal is not connected.

Post #25 is for a 71-74 Commando that has turn signals:
You pull off the two female spade connectors, use something like a paperclip to connect them together and make sure the paperclip doesn't touch anything else.

The amber indicator light in the headlight has two wires - Green/White and Green/Red. Disconnect them from where they are connected.

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 My tester only has a green light, no red. Gonna go out and buy a different one. I'm going to do the testing this weekend and will give an update.

I cannot find any of those flasher products in Canada. However my spare/parts bike had a flasher. Here it is. No name brand and is very different and much smaller than the other one.

 

[marshg246]

@marshg246 My tester only has a green light, no red. Gonna go out and buy a different one. I'm going to do the testing this weekend and will give an update.

I went by the Amazon link you gave. Whatever you buy, either send a proper link or give a proper description. This is too hard trying to guess when you are using/seeing.

 

[o0norton0o]

I used a 12 volt dodge pick up truck flasher unit in my directional wiring circuitry on my commando for a few decades. It worked fine. The '70 commandos didn't come with directionals from the factory, so somewhere in the 80's I added them for safety's sake. The lucas flasher I had bought never worked from brand new. I am sure I still have it in my parts bin 40 years later... unused except for testing

As is usual for me, I took them both apart to inspect how they work and they were very similarly made. They were both made of "bimetallic" strips that bridge a connection to turn the directional bulbs on. When the directional switch is turned on, the bimetallic strip in the flasher making the electrical connection heats up. Because it's a laminated Bimetallic strip, the heat causes the strip to warp which then causes it to break the circuit. Once it disconnects it cools off quickly so it returns to it's original shape and makes contact again to turn the light back on...... heats up,..... disconnects, cools off,......reconnects... Simple shit... and generally most 12 volt bimetallic flasher units from old cars should work on a norton.

Eventually, I switched to a "mo-stop" solid state flasher that Ludwig recommended which automatically cancels my turn signal after a set number of flashes if I forget to turn it off manually. It's worth buying because if someone cuts you off at an intersection when you are going straight because your left turn signal was mistakenly left on, it's kind of your own fault. Self canceling directionals are a good idea especially in my case because I can't see my front directionals mounted on my fairing while I'm sitting on the bike. (I am thinking of drilling holes from inside the fairing to the back side of the flasher lamp so I can see when the pulsing signal lamp is on from the saddle)

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 My apologies. This is the tester that I have: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/innova-3410-test-light-circuit-tester-0251061p.html

 

[DaveinCanada]

@marshg246 I've made progress and completed post #25. I connected the white with green/brown wires as you said. Disconnected the amber indicator light. When I move the signal switch on the handlebars, I get the left and right signal bulbs lighting up respectively. Woohoo.

Onto post #35 using my tester. Do I keep the white and green/brown wires connected with the paperclip or do I put the flasher relay back in place before doing the tests? Do I also need to reconnect the amber indicator wires?