more victor headaches

S

seattle##gs

Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
2,042
Country flag
I have been trying to get this Victor running right with no real luck.
Fresh motor
Compression is good...I can stand on the kick start lever.
New 30mm Wassel carburetor
I've tried different combinations: #17 & #19 pilot.....3 & 3.5 slides.....106 1nd 107 needle jets
New battery
Boyer
Always difficult to start. When it does run it runs poorly above 1/4 throttle. Float level is correct.
Always the same problem. Could it be that I timed the cam wrong? I was careful to set it on the correct mark I forget whether it was the dash or the V. If I did put it on the wrong mark would it give the problem I describe? Once I got it to idle and I rode it around a few blocks but it ran poorly and wouldn't take much throttle.
 
seattle##gs said:
I have been trying to get this Victor running right with no real luck.
Fresh motor
Compression is good...I can stand on the kick start lever.
New 30mm Wassel carburetor
I've tried different combinations: #17 & #19 pilot.....3 & 3.5 slides.....106 1nd 107 needle jets
New battery
Boyer
Always difficult to start. When it does run it runs poorly above 1/4 throttle. Float level is correct.
Always the same problem. Could it be that I timed the cam wrong? I was careful to set it on the correct mark I forget whether it was the dash or the V. If I did put it on the wrong mark would it give the problem I describe? Once I got it to idle and I rode it around a few blocks but it ran poorly and wouldn't take much throttle.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what symptoms using the wrong timing marks would make as I've never tried it
Are you certain that you have the ignition timing correct?
And you haven't swapped the pick-up wires
Can you see it advancing on the strobe light?
I don't know about wassel carbs but maybe the needle jets valve is too small
Does it flood quickly when you press the tickler button?
Have you tried dropping the needle one notch?
Do you have a spare Amal you could try?
 
The problem with the timing marks is even if you go by the book you can be never sure, the gearwheel is detachable from the cam and could be swapped with the wrong one. So the only way to be 100% certain is to clock the valve opening and closing degrees with a degree wheel on the crank.
 
Correct mark is the V if it is present, not the dash. The MX cam works best when full lift is 100 degrees ATDC. That figure is likely pretty good for the standard cam as well.
 
baz said:
I'm not sure what symptoms using the wrong timing marks would make as I've never tried it
Are you certain that you have the ignition timing correct?
And you haven't swapped the pick-up wires
Can you see it advancing on the strobe light?
I don't know about wassel carbs but maybe the needle jets valve is too small
Does it flood quickly when you press the tickler button?
Have you tried dropping the needle one notch?
Do you have a spare Amal you could try?
Click to expand...
When it does fire up it idles well and responds to the air screw. I have timed it with a light. pick up wires are correct. If they were connected wrong it would not start.
I will double check that it is advancing.
It does not flood quickly. Float height is correct.
Last night I fiddled with it for several hours. No change. I tried adding a ground wire from the motor to the ground collection point by the coil. It started immediately and again several times after that. And the throttle response was better. I thought I had it beat. Tried again this morning and it was back to the same old problems.
 
seattle##gs said:
pick up wires are correct. If they were connected wrong it would not start.
Click to expand...
No, if we are talking EI and not points it would still start with the wires the wrong way round, then as the revs rise it would retard the timing instead of advancing. As the revs rise and the ignition retards the engine loses power.
 
Last edited:
I've seen Boyers act two different ways when the stator wires are reversed. Some change their timing set point by a large amount like 75 degrees, others do as kommando described above. Regardless, if the engine runs and has electronic ignition, you must check with a strobe. I would also do a sanity test on the cam timing.
 
I triple checked the timing, the Boyer is working just fine. I richened the carb ....107 needle jet....needle is full rich....240 main. It ran a little better but it has a long way to go. It suggests a big air leak but I can't find it. If it was sucking air from somewhere it can only be at the carb flange. I think I'm forced to visit the cam timing...it's all that's left.
 
Just a thought. You said above that it does not flood quickly with the tickler. Are you sure you have good flow from the tank to the carb through the tap? You could be describing a lean condition because of poor fuel flow. Also, I have seen a B50 not run right or even start because of a restricted air filter from too much oil on a foam filter.
 
Do you have a spare Amal carb
Even a worn one
Just to see if it's the wassel that's not working correctly
 
The flow through the petcock is plenty. I count to 15 when I tickle it in the morning. I have not put on the air filter yet. I have the amal tool that uses
the sight tube to check float level. It seems good.
I have a B50 that runs very well but I didn't think of switching carbs. The bike left for Ellensburg yesterday.
I talked to BSA SINGLES today about the timing marks and he said if I went for the slash mark it would cause mechanical damage.
 
That one is good, too. I swapped the coil and pulled the carb off to inspect every nook and cranny. Can't see a thing wrong. Replaced all gaskets. Tomorrow I'll try to start it.
Usually if the coil is giving problems it either works or it doesn't. With little else to work on I put in a different one.
 
Try a different carb
Anything from a 26 to a 32 concentric will run on it
 
I can get a carb from a good running B50 and try it. grabbing at straws...is it possible that in some weird way the compression release is causing the problem? For starting I can stand on the kickstart lever and it doesn't turn over without bouncing on it. Perhaps it comes on and off randomly while running? I positioned it way off the ex rocker and the current adjustment gives a lot of clearance at the handlebar lever.
 
seattle##gs said:
I can get a carb from a good running B50 and try it. grabbing at straws...is it possible that in some weird way the compression release is causing the problem? For starting I can stand on the kickstart lever and it doesn't turn over without bouncing on it. Perhaps it comes on and off randomly while running? I positioned it way off the ex rocker and the current adjustment gives a lot of clearance at the handlebar lever.
Click to expand...
As long as you have the compression release spring fitted it's extremely doubtful
And if it is randomly touching then it'll wear out the rocker box very quickly
As you now doubt already know
Don't ever use the decomp lever to stop the motor
Not on a unit single BSA anyway
 
I finally went after the valve timing after trying everything else. The crank gear has a faint mark or maybe I'm imagining it. To double check does anyone have a 69 Victor special crank gear loose and can tell me where the mark is in relation to the keyway. Is it a dot or a dash?
Also, I've read that the "V" mark is not always reliable.
 
seattle##gs said:
I finally went after the valve timing after trying everything else. The crank gear has a faint mark or maybe I'm imagining it. To double check does anyone have a 69 Victor special crank gear loose and can tell me where the mark is in relation to the keyway. Is it a dot or a dash?
Also, I've read that the "V" mark is not always reliable.
Click to expand...
I have four unit single crank pinions handy, and each has a dash dead center in the valley of the two teeth centrally aligned with the keyway. I think what is meant by the "V" not being reliable means that the keyway is not accurately cut on the camshaft. For a street non-MX cam, the amount of misalignment is probably inconsequential. I would suggest that you set up a dial gauge on the inlet valve and a degree wheel on the crank, find the same number of degrees (say between 5 and 10 less than full lift) turning the motor in the forward direction and note the two degree wheel positions. Add them and divide by 2 to get the full lift degree figure. If it's more than 5 degrees off of 100 ATDC, then you likely have a valve timing issue.
 
Back
Top