What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

[Stu Bodycote]

What parts are you guys actually in need of right now? I can see what I've got. I need to go through my stock as I do have multiples of many things now (photo for example)

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

That was my point when I said that ’new 961 owners will become legacy owners’. Which will happen when TVS drop the 961.

I KNOW that guys are looking at new 961s… and at the current parts debacle… and the thoughts of being in that same place are at least contributing to decisions not to buy.

It’s not rocket science. Anyone who understands anything about this kind of motorcyclist knows that they are going to be thinking about how they maintain and fix it long term.

That extensive period we criticised Norton for FE - relating to spares and delays in SP delivery? You remember, those months and months Norton detailed as spent accepting parts and their provenance (and disposing of those without); setting up suppliers and contracts and quality control for every line item of the new 961?

Has Norton done this with a view to, when the (stop gap) 961 ceases production (inevitable), withdrawing spares supply? Would they plan to cancel all of those parts suppliers/contracts, after the warranty period? Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

What possible indication do we have that SP owners (with their warranty and consumer rights) will be managed for spares and maintenance support in the same way as the owners of a bike that they did not produce?

 

[Fast Eddie]

That extensive period we criticised Norton for FE - relating to spares and delays in SP delivery? You remember, those months and months Norton detailed as spent accepting parts and their provenance (and disposing of those without); setting up suppliers and contracts and quality control for every line item of the new 961?

Has Norton done this with a view to, when the (stop gap) 961 ceases production (inevitable), withdrawing spares supply? Would they plan to cancel all of those parts suppliers/contracts, after the warranty period? Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

What indication do we have that SP owners will be managed for spares and maintenance support in the same way as the owners of a bike that they did not produce?

Not quite sure why you‘re asking me those wider reaching and deep questions ? (I’m even less sure you, or many others on here, would actually like to read answers to them).

All I said was “I KNOW that guys are looking at new 961s… and at the current parts debacle… and the thoughts of being in that same place are at least contributing to decisions not to buy”.

I will gladly answer this relevant question:

Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

By ‘legacy owner’ I simply mean someone who owns a discontinued product. I was making zero suggestion regarding Norton failing, ceasing trading, etc.

 

[TonyA]

That extensive period we criticised Norton for FE - relating to spares and delays in SP delivery? You remember, those months and months Norton detailed as spent accepting parts and their provenance (and disposing of those without); setting up suppliers and contracts and quality control for every line item of the new 961?

Has Norton done this with a view to, when the (stop gap) 961 ceases production (inevitable), withdrawing spares supply? Would they plan to cancel all of those parts suppliers/contracts, after the warranty period? Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

What possible indication do we have that SP owners (with their warranty and consumer rights) will be managed for spares and maintenance support in the same way as the owners of a bike that they did not produce?

If I understand this correctly , there should be a 10 year product/parts support from TVS Norton for the vehicles they produced ?
So , then maybe parts will be available to us for another 10 years ? But what stops them from only selling to TVS Norton owners with verifiable vins and ownership ? Who in their right mind would want to buy a several thousand $$ from a company like that ?

 

[TonyA]

That extensive period we criticised Norton for FE - relating to spares and delays in SP delivery? You remember, those months and months Norton detailed as spent accepting parts and their provenance (and disposing of those without); setting up suppliers and contracts and quality control for every line item of the new 961?

Has Norton done this with a view to, when the (stop gap) 961 ceases production (inevitable), withdrawing spares supply? Would they plan to cancel all of those parts suppliers/contracts, after the warranty period? Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

What possible indication do we have that SP owners (with their warranty and consumer rights) will be managed for spares and maintenance support in the same way as the owners of a bike that they did not produce?

Hi Steve , I really hope there is an explanation for all of this parts silence that has been going on at TVS Norton .

 

[Voodooo]

That extensive period we criticised Norton for FE - relating to spares and delays in SP delivery? You remember, those months and months Norton detailed as spent accepting parts and their provenance (and disposing of those without); setting up suppliers and contracts and quality control for every line item of the new 961?

Has Norton done this with a view to, when the (stop gap) 961 ceases production (inevitable), withdrawing spares supply? Would they plan to cancel all of those parts suppliers/contracts, after the warranty period? Or do you mean that SP owners will become legacy owners when Norton fails and ceases trading?

What possible indication do we have that SP owners (with their warranty and consumer rights) will be managed for spares and maintenance support in the same way as the owners of a bike that they did not produce?

You will agree that when TVS purchased Norton, along with that purchase came all the left over part’s inventory and bikes correct?

In that time, even after they got settled in, up and running, they said they’d sell spares to us. What they also asked for were part numbers to those needed parts.
After providing those part numbers, then waiting on Norton to check their inventory supply, they would respond back with prices and wording that they can not guarantee fitment to Donington bikes. Even though these parts were left over from Donington.

I was perfectly fine taking my chances with that agreement and they provided prices.
When it came time to make a payment, that’s when the communication and responses from Norton stopped.
After literally about 6 tries, which included phone calls, emails, and social media messages, I gave up. Even when a member / employee of Norton joined this very forum. Mr John has since gone MIA and silent.

I wanted parts mainly for my Domi and some for my commando. Primarily body parts.
I have an itchy feeling the Domi parts they had left over were all thrown away.

 

[Voodooo]

Hi Steve , I really hope there is an explanation for all of this parts silence that has been going on at TVS Norton .

I’m curious that when Stephen was offered pricing on his Norton seat cowl, and if he would have agreed on the price, if Norton would have followed through and sold it to him.

 

[Voodooo]

What parts are you guys actually in need of right now? I can see what I've got. I need to go through my stock as I do have multiples of many things now (photo for example)

I was interested in the carbon Domi parts. Especially naked parts. Which I knew would be impossible to find. But I was also interested in the carbon Commando parts.

 

[CR961]

You will agree that when TVS purchased Norton, along with that purchase came all the left over part’s inventory and bikes correct?

In that time, even after they got settled in, up and running, they said they’d sell spares to us. What they also asked for were part numbers to those needed parts.
After providing those part numbers, then waiting on Norton to check their inventory supply, they would respond back with prices and wording that they can not guarantee fitment to Donington bikes. Even though these parts were left over from Donington.

I was perfectly fine taking my chances with that agreement and they provided prices.
When it came time to make a payment, that’s when the communication and responses from Norton stopped.
After literally about 6 tries, which included phone calls, emails, and social media messages, I gave up. Even when a member / employee of Norton joined this very forum. Mr John has since gone MIA and silent.

I wanted parts mainly for my Domi and some for my commando. Primarily body parts.
I have an itchy feeling the Domi parts they had left over were all thrown away.

From their point of view, they explained the background for this disappointing development in their release on making the "difficult decision" to not supply spare parts for Donington bikes. At least on this occasion, they were and are consistent.
Of course, the ongoing execution of this step and other related circumstances are jarring.
The thought of the leftover stock being destroyed is disgusting but believable. This kind of shocking wastefulness is standard in many industries. It improves inventory financials if you want to look at it that way.

Stu, do you have an idea of the size of the leftover parts stockpile, for example, how many full bikes could have been completed?

 

[Stu Bodycote]

I believe they held onto the Commando stock, and used it with the new bikes. For example, the 2022 bike I bought from salvage, had a 2018 date stamped wiring harness and wheels.
I'm sure that obsolete stock, including Dominator stuff, was sold to Krazy Horse.

My Domi carbon is limited unfortunately. The Naked stuff was just standard carbon, with a matt finish lacquer. So would be worth contacting Krazy Horse to see what they have.

 

[TonyA]

What parts are you guys actually in need of right now? I can see what I've got. I need to go through my stock as I do have multiples of many things now (photo for example)

Hi Stu I want an AOS air oil separator box , mine is cracked. And a L/H rocker tower for my new top end build.

 

[TonyA]

Hi Stu I want an AOS air oil separator box , mine is cracked. And a L/H rocker tower for my new top end build.

Hi Stu , Which Yam R6 is that off of ? I can’t find it on any drawings.

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

Not quite sure why you‘re asking me those wider reaching and deep questions ? (I’m even less sure you, or many others on here, would actually like to read answers to them).

All I said was “I KNOW that guys are looking at new 961s… and at the current parts debacle… and the thoughts of being in that same place are at least contributing to decisions not to buy”.

I will gladly answer this relevant question:

By ‘legacy owner’ I simply mean someone who owns a discontinued product. I was making zero suggestion regarding Norton failing, ceasing trading, etc.

Admittedly communication, especially with us red-headed step children, has not been great.

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

Hi Steve , I really hope there is an explanation for all of this parts silence that has been going on at TVS Norton .

Agreed Tony. I’m gonna try the direct approach next week - no guarantee of speaking to the right person. No guarantee they’ll take an overseas call, although I wouldn’t imagine they would be screening them out.

If successful I’ll make some discrete, appropriate enquiries and we’ll see were the land lies - at the least, clarifying the correct method of contacting the spares department.

As far as I’m aware only you and I have made (unsuccessful) spares request currently(?); and we used different e-mail addresses. Not sure we can count Voodoo’s as his pre-date the Norton spares department opening. Oh, and CG as well.

I’ll report back. If no luck then one of our UK members can give it a go. We’ll work it out eventually.

Worth noting that we were always gonna be the lowest priority, after parts for production and Birmingham customers; there were always gonna be delays at certain times. I see that as their most likely response. That said, a lack of timely provision may be explainable, the lack of any communication explaining that is far less acceptable.

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

You will agree that when TVS purchased Norton, along with that purchase came all the left over part’s inventory and bikes correct?

In that time, even after they got settled in, up and running, they said they’d sell spares to us. What they also asked for were part numbers to those needed parts.
After providing those part numbers, then waiting on Norton to check their inventory supply, they would respond back with prices and wording that they can not guarantee fitment to Donington bikes. Even though these parts were left over from Donington.

I was perfectly fine taking my chances with that agreement and they provided prices.
When it came time to make a payment, that’s when the communication and responses from Norton stopped.
After literally about 6 tries, which included phone calls, emails, and social media messages, I gave up. Even when a member / employee of Norton joined this very forum. Mr John has since gone MIA and silent.

I wanted parts mainly for my Domi and some for my commando. Primarily body parts.
I have an itchy feeling the Domi parts they had left over were all thrown away.

All of that detail is in a thread somewhere here Voodooo - could take some finding though. I remember it slightly differently.

From memory, their initial response was positive (asking for parts/numbers even providing prices etc) until they actually got to the point of auditing the legacy spares.

You might remember at that stage they identified that a significant number had no provenance detail, supplier or technical data supporting them - poor/none existent quality control. My guess is that the lawyers stepped in at that stage and advised that these could not be sold, even if liability were accepted by the purchaser. I think they notified us of this?

Then a delay from memory, where it looked like they were going to elect not to sell us parts. That fear did not eventuate and they eventually notified us of the current spares arrangement - green light to purchase only parts cleared for use on the Birmingham 961, but with no guarantee that they would fit.

This all occured before the spares department opened for business earlier this year.

Spares have been ordered and received (or identified for purchase) by myself, Tony and/or BT(?) Gojuu and no doubt others. No idea why there seems to be a pause. I suspect your spares drama was caught up in the middle of that setup schamozzle!

 

[Voodooo]

All of that detail is in a thread somewhere here Voodooo - could take some finding though. I remember it slightly differently.

From memory, their initial response was positive (asking for parts/numbers even providing prices etc) until they actually got to the point of auditing the legacy spares.

You might remember at that stage they identified that a significant number had no provenance detail, supplier or technical data supporting them - poor/none existent quality control. My guess is that the lawyers stepped in at that stage and advised that these could not be sold, even if liability were accepted by the purchaser. I think they notified us of this?

Then a delay from memory, where it looked like they were going to elect not to sell us parts. That fear did not eventuate and they eventually notified us of the current spares arrangement - green light to purchase only parts cleared for use on the Birmingham 961, but with no guarantee that they would fit.

This all occured before the spares department opened for business earlier this year.

Spares have been ordered and received (or identified for purchase) by myself, Tony and/or BT(?) Gojuu and no doubt others. No idea why there seems to be a pause. I suspect your spares drama was caught up in the middle of that setup schamozzle!

Like always Stephen I’m happy you feel positive and optimistic.
Unfortunately it’s not always the case.

How is your order coming along?

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

Like always Stephen I’m happy you feel positive and optimistic.
Unfortunately it’s not always the case.

How is your order coming along?

I put a request in 7 days ago - no reply. I used the parts@.. email address that I’ve had success with before.

That email address no longer figures on the Norton website - sales@…. does. There has been word of a staff turnover in the parts area. This may have led to the change - who knows. Who knows also, whether our unique arrangement has been briefed correctly.

Hence the exploritory call.

‘Realistic’ mate. It just also happens to be more ‘positive’ than lobbing another hand grenade over the solihull fence.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Like always Stephen I’m happy you feel positive and optimistic.
Unfortunately it’s not always the case.

How is your order coming along?

You are looking at it all wrong Scott…

You really can’t keep blaming the company for old issues. The fact that you had parts supply issues before the spares department was opened is basically quite understandable, as there was no spares department ! But there is now, so this is clearly a historical matter. It‘s simply not fair to keep raising old hat topics. It’s water under the bridge.
Its a none issue.

And neither can you blame them for having issues with their new spares department. That’s really quite unfair becasue it’s brand new, it’s only natural that they’re going to have teething problems, but they’re working on it diligently in their state of the art factory, it will all be sorted just you wait and see.
It‘s a none issue.

So you see, what you’re doing is making the mistake of looking at it negatively ie you have two bikes that you can’t use and haven’t been able to buy any spare parts for, for 3 years.
That’s a very negative outlook Scott.

As you can see from my points above, that is very negative and completely incorrect way to look at the situation. When looked at correctly, there are two separate topics and actually, they both are none issues.

So as you can see, when looked at correctly you really have no issues at all.

Glad I was able to help.

 

[Stephen_Spencer]

You are looking at it all wrong Scott…

You really can’t keep blaming the company for old issues. The fact that you had parts supply issues before the spares department was opened is basically quite understandable, as the was no spares department ! But there is now, so this is clearly a historical matter. It‘s simply not fair to keep raising old hat topics. It’s water under the ridge.
Its a none issue.

And neither can you blame them for having issues with their new spares department. That’s really quite unfair becasue it’s brand new, it’s only natural that they’re going to have teething problems, but they’re working on it diligently in their state of the art factory, it will all be sorted just yiu wait and see.
It really is a none issue.

So you see, what you’re doing is making the mistake of looking at it negatively ie you have two bikes that you can’t use and haven’t been able to buy any spare parts for, for 3 years.
That’s a very negative outlook Scott.

As you can see from my points above, that is very negative and completely incorrect way to look at the situation. When looked at correctly, there are two separate topics and actually, they both are none issues.

So as you can see, when looked at correctly you really have no issues at all.

Glad I was able to help.

Very constructive FE. If you actually want to be helpful rather than ‘point score’ you can ring Norton from the UK and find out why the hiatus in spares supply has occured. No matter you no longer own a 961.

Voodoo has told us on multiple occasions that neither of his bikes are ‘off the road’ for spares. He chooses not to use them because if a problem occurs (mechanical or accident) he is concerned about parts replacement. Especially pertinent for the Dommie and smart, if you intend to sell them in the near future.

Do we know any of our number that are currently off the road for spares? Very few, if any I suspect. In part because of the helpfulness of this forum.

 

[City Garage]

Agreed Tony. I’m gonna try the direct approach next week - no guarantee of speaking to the right person. No guarantee they’ll take an overseas call, although I wouldn’t imagine they would be screening them out.

If successful I’ll make some discrete, appropriate enquiries and we’ll see were the land lies - at the least, clarifying the correct method of contacting the spares department.

As far as I’m aware only you and I have made (unsuccessful) spares request currently(?); and we used different e-mail addresses. Not sure we can count Voodoo’s as his pre-date the Norton spares department opening. Oh, and CG as well.

I’ll report back. If no luck then one of our UK members can give it a go. We’ll work it out eventually.

Worth noting that we were always gonna be the lowest priority, after parts for production and Birmingham customers; there were always gonna be delays at certain times. I see that as their most likely response. That said, a lack of timely provision may be explainable, the lack of any communication explaining that is far less acceptable.

Mine has been monthly to the parts email