Why only two main bearings?

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Apr 13, 2021
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Hi all,
I‘ve often wondered why British twins only have two main bearings.
Any motor car engine with any pretensions of performance or quality is equiped with a main bearing between every cylinder.
It therefore has always struck me as odd that British twins that are high performance engines that also battle with crankshaft flex, don’t have a centre bearing.
From a non expert‘s point of view the addition of a centre slipper bearing doesn’t seem all that difficult, Tridents and R3s have simple and effective plain bearings on the inner journals.
As to whether you would have a ‘master crankcase‘ with the middle bearing incorporated into it or have both cases with half a main bearing support, I do not know but it just doesn’t seem that hard.
Surely a middle support on the crank would reduce flex that we know was the nemesis of the Combat, reduce vibration and contribute to a smoother longer lifed bike?
I believe I might have seen on this forum a wildly modified Norton engine with a centre bearing but know nothing more of it.
Obviously the designers of our British bikes must have considered the possibility and deemed it not worth while but thinking it must have a lot of ‘pros’ I wonder what the ‘cons’ were. Surely the fact that Turner didn’t include it in his twin or Hopwood in Norton’s original design didn’t mean it couldn’t have been added at a later stage when the limits of the original layout were being reached?
regards
Alan
 
A lot of (admittedly low power) Brit four cylinder car engines first appeared with only three main bearings, though most grew to five eventually (Rootes, BMC A and B series, Ford 'Kent')...
Cheap and cheerful???
 
Truth is, with the power they produced and the revs they did, it simply wasn’t needed.

Add that to a tight arse industry famed for spending the bare minimum on tooling and equipment and I think you’ve pretty much got your answer…
 
Because ball/roller bearings don't seperate like plain bearings.
Roller bearings are robust.
Plain bearings have different design issues.

It's not so simple.
 
AJS and Matchless twins have a center main bearing. They also had a reputation for fragile crankshafts.
A well deserved reputation I might add. My '58 G11 600cc twin ended with the conrod fighting with a piece of crankshaft to get out of the bottom of the crankcase. No warning, it was running sweet just before it happened. I think a poorly designed conrod was the culprit.
 
Hi all,
I‘ve often wondered why British twins only have two main bearings.
Any motor car engine with any pretensions of performance or quality is equiped with a main bearing between every cylinder.
It therefore has always struck me as odd that British twins that are high performance engines that also battle with crankshaft flex, don’t have a centre bearing.
From a non expert‘s point of view the addition of a centre slipper bearing doesn’t seem all that difficult, Tridents and R3s have simple and effective plain bearings on the inner journals.
As to whether you would have a ‘master crankcase‘ with the middle bearing incorporated into it or have both cases with half a main bearing support, I do not know but it just doesn’t seem that hard.
Surely a middle support on the crank would reduce flex that we know was the nemesis of the Combat, reduce vibration and contribute to a smoother longer lifed bike?
I believe I might have seen on this forum a wildly modified Norton engine with a centre bearing but know nothing more of it.
Obviously the designers of our British bikes must have considered the possibility and deemed it not worth while but thinking it must have a lot of ‘pros’ I wonder what the ‘cons’ were. Surely the fact that Turner didn’t include it in his twin or Hopwood in Norton’s original design didn’t mean it couldn’t have been added at a later stage when the limits of the original layout were being reached?
regards
Alan
We could only afford two main bearings
 
Because ball/roller bearings don't seperate like plain bearings.
Roller bearings are robust.
Plain bearings have different design issues.

It's not so simple.
Not so simple indeed. To the casual eye it would seem that more support would be better but in reality moving parts are far from static and under loads can twist, bend and become distorted in various ways. This can cause plain bearing to pinch and bind or fatigue other parts. It really is not so simple.
 
A well deserved reputation I might add. My '58 G11 600cc twin ended with the conrod fighting with a piece of crankshaft to get out of the bottom of the crankcase. No warning, it was running sweet just before it happened. I think a poorly designed conrod was the culprit.
Yes I broke a crankshaft in my 1961 650 AJS.

I will admit I was going for it at the time.
 
Not so simple indeed. To the casual eye it would seem that more support would be better but in reality moving parts are far from static and under loads can twist, bend and become distorted in various ways. This can cause plain bearing to pinch and bind or fatigue other parts. It really is not so simple.
And not so simple in a vertically split crankcase
 
With 360 degree firing you need a big counter weight which is located right where the bearing would go. The Trident and Rocket 3 have 120 degree firing which is much smoother.
 
I like the simplicity of the design of these engines as they are and believe that careful assembly is the most important detail to maintain their reliability
 
I too had a crank let go on a 1961 650 AJS in the early 80's, but in my case it was due to incorrect radii by a so-called specialist Automotive Reconditioner, it broke after 500 miles and when I pointed out it did not have the 5/32 & 9/64 centre main radii the Manager said "we would go broke if we ground the grinding wheel to the correct radius of every crank we grind so we have a grinding wheel that is a happy medium AJS's break cranks it's not our fault" [last time they did any work for me] so I ended up having a steel crank made on a lathe- end of story!
 
I too had a crank let go on a 1961 650 AJS in the early 80's, but in my case it was due to incorrect radii by a so-called specialist Automotive Reconditioner, it broke after 500 miles and when I pointed out it did not have the 5/32 & 9/64 centre main radii the Manager said "we would go broke if we ground the grinding wheel to the correct radius of every crank we grind so we have a grinding wheel that is a happy medium AJS's break cranks it's not our fault" [last time they did any work for me] so I ended up having a steel crank made on a lathe- end of story!
Did you tell the shithead to refuse work that wasn't suited then?
 
I like the simplicity of the design of these engines as they are and believe that careful assembly is the most important detail to maintain their reliability
and back in the day they were everything but carefully assembled.
 
Didn't AJS/Matchless change the crank material to nodular iron to mitigate the breakages?
The next question is 'did it work?'
Plain bearings in Brits... The only bikes I've had catastrophic failures with were an A65 with a crappy Timing Side plain bush and a T150 which had about 3k miles on it since a new crank had been fitted.
Both were symptomatic of a starved big end.
I'll live with the flex...
 
Didn't AJS/Matchless change the crank material to nodular iron to mitigate the breakages?
The next question is 'did it work?'
Plain bearings in Brits... The only bikes I've had catastrophic failures with were an A65 with a crappy Timing Side plain bush and a T150 which had about 3k miles on it since a new crank had been fitted.
Both were symptomatic of a starved big end.
I'll live with the flex...
Yes they did & yes it did. The reason for using cast iron was that it was cheap, easy to cast, & perfectly up to the task.........for a 500. It even seemed to be good for the 550 & 600 engines. The problem came when they moved up to 650cc. No one seems certain when the Nodular iron cranks were first made, but it seems to be sometime in 1962.

Martyn.
 
I too had a crank let go on a 1961 650 AJS in the early 80's, but in my case it was due to incorrect radii by a so-called specialist Automotive Reconditioner, it broke after 500 miles and when I pointed out it did not have the 5/32 & 9/64 centre main radii the Manager said "we would go broke if we ground the grinding wheel to the correct radius of every crank we grind so we have a grinding wheel that is a happy medium AJS's break cranks it's not our fault" [last time they did any work for me] so I ended up having a steel crank made on a lathe- end of story!
I ground cranks for more than a couple of years , and tried really hard to match the radius and dress the stone for each new crank , it's not that hard you have to dress the front anyway . I remember doing perk jobs in the 80s 90s for a Highway 61 guy (nic name Gypsy) mainly heads then, Triumph , he admitted to owning a Tl125 , I had Tl250s , it was funny .
 
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