Rocker spring washer - not enough room?

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fiatfan

fiatfan

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Ok, so I´m installing all the stuff back in to my 850 head, have done the exhaust rockers which went fine but.... how do I do the intakes? There´s not enough room to get the spring washer in position when the rocker is in place. The opening between the piece protruding down and the bit where the intake valve cover stud is placed is way too narrow, it´s several mm too small. And trying to put the spring washer in first seems pretty impossible, more or less. Help, please? (In the photo I use a dummy rocker spindle a friend made for me)
Rocker spring washer - not enough room?
 
Fast Eddie said:
I squeeze the rocker and spring washer in together at the same time, no spindles obviously, then align them and insert the spindle.
Click to expand...
I thought of that too, but it´s sooo little room there, guess I´ll have to try. The new spring washers are roughly 5/16" wide and pretty hard to compress, the old ones are just about half of that, probably never replaced since -73.
Rocker spring washer - not enough room?
 
Can you place it prior to fitting the rocker, so you can pass it from the right side in your photo, to its seating, hold in place with skinny screw driver etc while fetching up the rocker.
 
That is one heck of a spring stack. I have one that is a fatty like that. However, it is on the exhaust side which is slightly easier to deal with than the intake side. You can do it like you are doing it, but you need to compress the entire spring with the hook nose pliers.

Nigel's way works best if you have a third arm, or a buttload of confidence. I've done it both ways. I'll be doing it again today, but on the easy side of he head. And I won't be using new springs. If I was feeling my oats, I'd toss the springs in a box and do it with shims and spacers. It would make the rockers operate much smoother, and in the long run be easier to R&R the rockers if doing a valve job or whatever.
 
Bin the Thackeray washers and shim the rockers is my advice. Pretty sure they were just used for assembly speed at the factory, and you may find the adjusters don’t centre on the valve tip with them.
 
Tornado said:
Can you place it prior to fitting the rocker, so you can pass it from the right side in your photo, to its seating, hold in place with skinny screw driver etc while fetching up the rocker.
Click to expand...
The spring is so hard, have to compress it quite a bit to get the rocker in there, and then the shim which is thin and easy to brake...... I don´t know.
 
cliffa said:
Bin the Thackeray washers and shim the rockers is my advice. Pretty sure they were just used for assembly speed at the factory, and you may find the adjusters don’t centre on the valve tip with them.
Click to expand...
The adjusters actually center very nice, but I guess I´ll have to look in to the shim method.
 
Springs aren’t used only for assembly line convenience. They can act as a damper on the rocker at high rpm. But more practically for most, they help reduce top end clatter.

You can never have spacers that are correct, cos if they’re correct when cold, they’ll be loose when hot, they cannot adapt to the expansion and contraction. That’s why springs are used.
 
Fast Eddie said:
You shouldn’t have to. Something is wrong. I think your new springs are just wrong…
Click to expand...
They come from Andover. See photo. There´s just one version of them. And I don´t think the spring is the real issue, it´s the lack of space which makes it impossible to slide the spring straight in, in line with the inner surface.
Rocker spring washer - not enough room?
 
I normally doit like you're trying to do it. But if I have a hard time (arthritis) I use this alternate method:

Put the spring washer basically place. Use the rocker to compress it and slide the rocker basically in place. Push in the thin washer on the other side, again basically in place. Use something like a Philips screwdriver through the head, rocker, washers, and into the head again. By gently moving the screwdriver around you can centralize things enough to get the rocker shaft started. Once you have the rocker shaft nearly to the spring washer wiggle it enough that the rocker shaft enters it. Then just finish pressing/driving the shaft in.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Springs aren’t used only for assembly line convenience. They can act as a damper on the rocker at high rpm. But more practically for most, they help reduce top end clatter.

You can never have spacers that are correct, cos if they’re correct when cold, they’ll be loose when hot, they cannot adapt to the expansion and contraction. That’s why springs are used.
Click to expand...
That does make a lot of sense.

Anyone tried the rocker spacer setup and had a failure?

Just curious, since I probably read about doing the spacer thing on this website.
That's why I brought it up. I thought all the cool kids were doing it. ;)
 
I have always done away with the springs and used used shims to put the rocker over the centre of the valve
But I read recently on here that the rocker should strike offset to the centre of the valve to encourage rotation
 
marshg246 said:
I normally doit like you're trying to do it. But if I have a hard time (arthritis) I use this alternate method:

Put the spring washer basically place. Use the rocker to compress it and slide the rocker basically in place. Push in the thin washer on the other side, again basically in place. Use something like a Philips screwdriver through the head, rocker, washers, and into the head again. By gently moving the screwdriver around you can centralize things enough to get the rocker shaft started. Once you have the rocker shaft nearly to the spring washer wiggle it enough that the rocker shaft enters it. Then just finish pressing/driving the shaft in.
Click to expand...
I actually managed to du it roughly that way, didn´t think it was possible, but it was. Have you done it recently, and come across these really wide springs that I bought from Andover? I can´t be the only one who has bought them and find them much tougher than the original ones..... I think the rockers are too tight now, I need to put pretty much force on them to make them move. Before fitting them they move freely and easy on the shaft so it all depends on the spring, the way I see it.
 
cliffa said:
Bin the Thackeray washers and shim the rockers is my advice. Pretty sure they were just used for assembly speed at the factory, and you may find the adjusters don’t centre on the valve tip with them.
Click to expand...
That's what I did, shimmed the rockers and centered them on the valve stem. Seems like it would cause less scrubbing and valve guide wear over time. I think the idea behind the springs is anti-noise. Mine's always been a bit more clattery without them.
 
I did manage to install one of the intake rockers, didn´t think it was possible, but sometimes I surprise myself. But should the rockers be this hard to rotate? They all moved freely on the shaft before I installed them, but when installed too much force (I think) to move them on the shaft.
I tried to attach a short film I took, but don´t know how to do that.....
 
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Rocker alignment with valve stem

Hello Access gurus While assembling my 850 Commando cyl head I noticed that one ex valve rocker valve adjustment screw is not contacting the center of the valve stem (unlike the others) Is it an acceptable practice to move a rocker into alignment with the insertion of additional thrust washers...
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