Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.

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fiatfan

fiatfan

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Thought I´d put this in a separate thread (no pun intended!) I got my 850 head back from Seager the other day, and I have both good and bad to say about this. The good first: the work is just great, I have no complaints what so ever (see pics). New inserts in the exhaust ports and new rose nuts, very lightly shaved gasket surface, stainless inserts in the 4 outer bolt holes and removing the old "repair" job on the ports and fixing the fins, and then all vapor blasted. All beautiful work. A nd then the bad.... well, it took just over 8 months..... and when he finally started working on it, it took 3 or 4 days and it was done. That part I don´t get, I find it highly unlikely that all the work that has been done up intill now was sent to him before my head got there just after Christmas last year..... Anyway, here´s some pics.

Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.
 
All the decent restoration companies in the UK have huge backlogs as Covid projects were dusted off and parts sent out.
 
fiatfan said:
And then the bad.... well, it took just over 8 months..... and when he finally started working on it, it took 3 or 4 days and it was done. That part I don´t get,
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Yes, almost certainly due to Covid where we in the UK have lurched from one set of restrictions to another almost overnight and we are not free of it yet and where workers who couldn't work from home were paid by the government not to go to work for months.
Then we had a 'pingdemic':
inews.co.uk

What 'pingdemic' means - and why the NHS Covid app has forced so many to self-isolate

High numbers of people being 'pinged' has led to concerns over staff shortages
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk
 
I sent my Full Auto head to Patrick at Seager Engineering for some work just before Christmas 2020, with an estimation of 6 to 8 weeks. It ended up being about 20 weeks. It was frustrating that a few promised deadlines were not achieved, but Patrick was extremely pleasant and friendly on the few occasions that I chased things up, explaining his situation, and I have to say that the quality of Patrick's work is top notch, and I knew that it would be from my previous dealings. I did have my other 2 bikes to ride whilst this was going on so wasn't overly bothered.
Regarding the long work turnaround times, as well as what has already been mentioned, another contribution this year to the delays was that he moved his workshop (all of his equipment) out of Ipswich to a new workshop nearer to where he lives. I know that a lot of his time had to be diverted to sorting all the problems that that threw up, so hopefully things will improve a bit now.
 
fiatfan said:
stainless inserts in the 4 outer bolt holes
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I had this done to my FullAuto cylinder head as these four holes were collapsing despite using correct bolts, washers and torque settings.

Patrick said that one of the delays on my cylinder head was caused by him having to wait for some time to receive a cutting tool that he had commissioned that would do the job on the Norton head. Apparently, he could do it on Triumph cylinder heads, but the tool that he used on the Triumph's wouldn't clear the "cast on" rocker boxes of the Norton.
 
Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.


Exhaust threads repair from Seager Eng.


I also had the three under-head threaded holes fitted with Colisbro inserts as the studs were quite a loose fit in the original threads, as well as the four top hat washers fitted.
 
Reggie said:
I had this done to my FullAuto cylinder head as these four holes were collapsing despite using correct bolts, washers and torque settings.
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When you say "correct" bolts, were (are) they the 3/8" waisted down to 5/16"?
These fasteners, supplied by cNw and Jim Schmidt (maybe others?), reduce the heat expansion related creep failure of old & new heads.
Were (are) you using these or the older OEM bolts?
Cheers
 
SteveC said:
Ouch! I sent my head to Seager 2 weeks ago.
Now I’m worried!
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Well, maybe you should or maybe you should not, I don´t know. The first estimate I got was max 2 months.... But as Reggie says, he has moved shop and what not, but my view on this is; don´t come with dead-lines that you can´t keep, be honest instead and tell it like it is. BUT once again, the work is top notch!
 
What I meant was I was using original spec equipment with the correct washers, and so wouldn't have expected the aluminium to collapse as it did.
I haven't bought any waisted bolts yet, but I may well do so very soon as the top hat washers have "settled" very slightly by about 0.014" on two of the four after several heat cycles, based on one full turn of the head bolt equals about 0.038" per full turn. If they continue "settling" it will suggest that the alloy is so soft that the top hat washers aren't enough to solve the issue and then I would buy some waisted bolts to see if that would stop any more deterioration.
 
I have the same head getting the same treatment and I hope to see it in a week or so.
Fullauto heads are really soft. Way too soft. Was not happy to hear you still have settling problems with the top hats. He is making bigger washers for the 5/16 nuts in the front of
the head. Going with 3/8 x16 for the three head studs and 26 tpi on the nut end standard
Norton.
On the whole the FA head is losing the shine it once had for me. Having my RH10 head
flowed by JC would have been a better approach. Too late now.
As for wait time, talked to a speedometer repairman and he is a couple of months, painter
almost six months, toolroom since last....CHRISTMAS....he isn't the only one. If the shop's
work is good just tough it out.
 
I don't know if I should start another thread about FullAuto heads? LAB, please advise if you prefer me to?

Onder said:
I have the same head getting the same treatment and I hope to see it in a week or so.
Fullauto heads are really soft. Way too soft.
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As I had not heard of any other comments about soft FullAuto heads on the forum, I did wonder if I was the only unlucky punter who had suffered this. Last year I went to Norway on the Norton, and travelling through Hamburg both ways was hell on earth, with stationary traffic and temperatures in the high 20*C. There was quite a lot of standing still and crawling at slow speeds even though I filtered quite a lot. I had wondered if maybe my cylinder head got so hot in Hamburg that it was partly annealed? as the two worst affected bolts were the ones behind/near the exhaust valves. But if you are suffering the same problems, then maybe we aren't the only ones?

The two top hats that are settling the most are the two fronts as stated above. After the bolts had moved fractionally three or four times after using the bike, I then marked the bolts and the washers to moniter how much the bolts are tightening. After marking them, they have tightened about a quarter of a turn each after several heat cycles, which equates to about 0.010". As I said, if the creep continues, I will buy waisted bolts. After that, I will see what there is left to do, if anything. Patrick did explain to me at some length how a new head should be heat treated to harden it. Obviously, I have no idea what was done to these heads during manufacture.

I am fairly cheesed off about this, especially as the F.A. heads were quite expensive and I sold a stage 2 modified Steve Maney head and standard RH4 after buying this head. But I suppose that we are lucky that somebody (FullAuto /Ken) took on this venture and hat off for doing it, but mine is what mine is, and there's not a lot that I can do about it now.

Incidentally, on my F.A. there are no issues at the moment where the 5/16" nuts tighten. There was some flattening of the head where the central bolt goes though.
 
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Remember that JC FA head had the exhaust port threads pull out in something like 6k miles
if I remember correctly. Mine are fine at 10k but I told Pat to do them. So add the top hats
a seat touch up and then he suggested the spark plug holes. At this point it is pretty obvious
corners were cut or QC faded.
But I am not forgetting that all the valve guide angles are correct (unlike my RH10 and this
was a major reason for buying the FA) and the head comes correctly ported.
You pays yer money and takes yer chances.
...and hats off to Pat for making every effort to salvage the situation.
 
On my Fullauto one of the 3/8" studs pulled out soon after fitting it. I took it off & machined up three inserts with 1/2" outer, 3/8"inner thread & screwed them into the head. Since I did that it's been fine.
Hopefully when the new heads are available from John at G81 can cycle, any issues will have been addressed.

Martyn.
 
If you are commenting on FA heads the serial number would maybe help those who feel they have issues.

I have 101. I bought it through Mick Hemmings at what I thought was an amazing price for a new head.

It has had several seasons worth of racing. Although I have bought 3/8 by 16 studs, I haven't fitted them, or removed the standard AN studs.

I have also purchased JSM waisted AAP studs/bolts but so far have only installed the cylinder through bolts.

I have Seager roses. The exhaust was custom made stainless, with a big flange ring welded on, and that makes it difficult at times to engage the threads, but with care and a bit of copper grease, we are OK so far.

I haven't seen other problems, and it has gotten pretty damn hot at times. Who knows? And who knows what happens tomorrow?

So far I rate it as one of my best 'Norton' purchases alongside the Maney cases and crank, JSM rods/pistons, TTi gearbox and Norman White clutch!
 
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