Zongshen Norton 850 engine

Voodooo said:
My problem with China made products.
1) communist country
2) poor quality.
3) poor treatment of workers and citizens.
4) stealing of other countries engineering and design
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And no longer that cheap either, and that alone is becoming a problem for them. What about the increasing amount of chinese items now processed in the UK.
 
Naive I may be, but it seems a shame to punish the many due to the actions of the few (but ain't that always the way?) Does Mr and Mrs Average Chinese have a massive chip on their shoulder like some others? Don't recall any suggestions for a yellow James Bond... or a change in the school menu to cater for their specific needs...
Nothing to do with Norton engines, I know, but ...... Apologies..
 
GRM 450 said:
Australian made lasts 20 years or more if looked after.
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The same could easily be said for British made goods. Last year I dumped a fully working Philips tumble drier that I purchased in 1987. It had been used for the past 15 years in my barn to dry dog blankets etc., made in the UK and it only ever needed 1 new drive belt and one brass bearing/bush. We still have an American style fridge freezer made by Hotpoint (UK) that is 23 years old, fully operational, in excellent condition and has never needed an engineer, not even a lightbulb! Yes, you get your monies worth from well made goods at a slight premium in price, sadly I consider most items made in China as 'junk' and that includes my Apple Iphone and this Lenovo/IBM Pc that I am typing on, both of which cost a fortune, cost little to make but gave the corporate brands enormous profits.

We've just bought a Belling range cooker, quality wise the company are rated as medium, but they boast that the range cookers are made in the UK which ticked the box, time will tell.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Naive I may be, but it seems a shame to punish the many due to the actions of the few (but ain't that always the way?) Does Mr and Mrs Average Chinese have a massive chip on their shoulder like some others? Don't recall any suggestions for a yellow James Bond... or a change in the school menu to cater for their specific needs...
Nothing to do with Norton engines, I know, but ...... Apologies..
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Whilst it is your right to continue to defend China and their products, and I'm aware the thread started about whether anyone would want to buy a Chinese Norton, I can't let your remarks go unchallenged.

In your dealings with the RSPCA you say you have seen animal cruelty in Britain. This, as in most other countries, is the actions of a few sick people. In China it is not the actions of a few, it is actually a way of life. Witness the repulsive Yulin dog festival occurring this month where thousands of dogs are killed in a barbaric manner and consumed. (This is not some relic from the past - it started in 2009)

Animals are being subjected to unspeakable cruelty, and donkeys are being poached for their skins from other countries on a grand scale to satisfy the insatiable demand for Chinese traditional medicine. This demand is not diminishing, it is massively increasing and even endorsed by President Xi who, unbelievably, has stated he is keen to promote a policy to expand and develop traditional Chinese medicine.

I'm not saying there are no decent Chinese people (some actively campaign against animal cruelty), but it's not about the people. It's about the establishment. It's about wanting to have nothing to do with furthering the economic development of an immoral and unprincipled regime.

With economic progress comes increasing political power and with China's record on human rights do we really want that to continue?
 
alwaysal said:
I'm not saying there are no decent Chinese people (some actively campaign against animal cruelty), but it's not about the people. It's about the establishment. It's about wanting to have nothing to do with furthering the economic development of an immoral and unprincipled regime.

With economic progress comes increasing political power and with China's record on human rights do we really want that to continue?
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I agree that this is not an indictment of the Chinese people, but of an oppressive regime.
You need only look to the people of Hong Kong to see their concern about imposition of new Chinese regulations.
The Chinese people of Hong Kong understand the culture of Beijing, and what that future means for them.
The world needs to watch the events unfolding in Hong Kong.
 
Its the CCP that I object too, if the Chinese people can ever get rid of them and be as democratic as Taiwan then China can come back in from the cold.
 
alwaysal said:
Whilst it is your right to continue to defend China and their products, and I'm aware the thread started about whether anyone would want to buy a Chinese Norton, I can't let your remarks go unchallenged.

In your dealings with the RSPCA you say you have seen animal cruelty in Britain. This, as in most other countries, is the actions of a few sick people. In China it is not the actions of a few, it is actually a way of life. Witness the repulsive Yulin dog festival occurring this month where thousands of dogs are killed in a barbaric manner and consumed. (This is not some relic from the past - it started in 2009)

Animals are being subjected to unspeakable cruelty, and donkeys are being poached for their skins from other countries on a grand scale to satisfy the insatiable demand for Chinese traditional medicine. This demand is not diminishing, it is massively increasing and even endorsed by President Xi who, unbelievably, has stated he is keen to promote a policy to expand and develop traditional Chinese medicine.

I'm not saying there are no decent Chinese people (some actively campaign against animal cruelty), but it's not about the people. It's about the establishment. It's about wanting to have nothing to do with furthering the economic development of an immoral and unprincipled regime.

With economic progress comes increasing political power and with China's record on human rights do we really want that to continue?
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Firstly... Not quite sure where I've 'defended' China and her products, as consumers it's a free market and we can buy from who or where we like, but good luck sourcing 'Made In England', the 'why's and wherefores' for that are a whole different ballgame....
Yes, animal welfare and cruelty is rife in China, but sadly that's endemic in most cultures if you care to dig, but many will be overlooked if there's mitigating circumstances. (Spanish holidays?)
You say: 'but it's not about the people..' But my view is IT IS... If you don't buy a fridge because it's: 'Made In China' who will that impact? I'm guessing the guy that makes it rather than Mr President. As I've pointed out elsewhere, trying to educate the natives is a risky business, and prone to backfiring. It's not an ideal world and never will be, Covid-19 has put the spotlight on China, but I'm guessing had it not happened, 99% of the world wouldn't have given a flying f*ck about China.
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Firstly... Not quite sure where I've 'defended' China and her products, as consumers it's a free market and we can buy from who or where we like, but good luck sourcing 'Made In England', the 'why's and wherefores' for that are a whole different ballgame....
Yes, animal welfare and cruelty is rife in China, but sadly that's endemic in most cultures if you care to dig, but many will be overlooked if there's mitigating circumstances. (Spanish holidays?)
You say: 'but it's not about the people..' But my view is IT IS... If you don't buy a fridge because it's: 'Made In China' who will that impact? I'm guessing the guy that makes it rather than Mr President. As I've pointed out elsewhere, trying to educate the natives is a risky business, and prone to backfiring. It's not an ideal world and never will be, Covid-19 has put the spotlight on China, but I'm guessing had it not happened, 99% of the world wouldn't have given a flying f*ck about China.
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Just for the record, I was exploring the possibility of not buying Chinese before the virus.
Killing tigers for their bones,plucking live rabbits for their fur etc etc etc.
Most countries change...
Remember that we used to burn witches!
 
GRM 450 said:
I’m a Refrigeration mechanic in Australia
Chinese commercial fridges are made ok but made from cheap or very thin materials.
It wouldn’t cost much more to use better materials.
They don’t last very long.
Cheap isn’t cheap when the end user has to buy a replacement in a year or two.
Australian made lasts 20 years or more if looked after.
Not many manufacturers left here.

I try to buy things from anywhere except China which isn’t easy.

Graeme
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I can admit that products are not as durable. They are made to throw away after a few years. That said, prices of a 55 inch high def TV costs about the same as a 19 to 24" TV made in the 60s. A few hundred. My old man paid 500 bucks for a Fisher "hi fi" stereo in the 60s. Look at the product you can get for half the price now. We are getting technologically advanced products for so much less. The majority made in China. Its the friggin monthly costs for services that are killing us.
Still using my 35 year old Maytag washer. Doubt todays models would last that long.
 
MAK said:
Just for the record, I was exploring the possibility of not buying Chinese before the virus.
Killing tigers for their bones,plucking live rabbits for their fur etc etc etc.
Most countries change...
Remember that we used to burn witches!
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And hopefully they will change, though I suspect it won't be by being bullied into it.....
Recommended reading: War Doctor by David Nott As an educated man his description of some parts of the 'modern' world make our witch burning old hat!
 
MAK said:
Just for the record, I was exploring the possibility of not buying Chinese before the virus.
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Same here, actively trying to avoid 'Made In China' for a good few years. One single video from an animal welfare group based in China (yes there are many, many Chinese who are sickened by what is happening in their own country) showing a large mound of dead dogs that had been skinned for the fur trade, to end up as fluffy bits on f'king slippers bought in the Western markets for a quid.... except the dogs weren't dead, they can't even respect an animal enough to f'king kill it before ripping off it's coat!

I was horrified when I took off my 961 seat hump to do my brake conversion only to find a 'Made In China' sticker on the ABS unit.
 
MxMartin said:
Same here, actively trying to avoid 'Made In China' for a good few years. One single video from an animal welfare group based in China (yes there are many, many Chinese who are sickened by what is happening in their own country) showing a large mound of dead dogs that had been skinned for the fur trade, to end up as fluffy bits on f'king slippers bought in the Western markets for a quid.... except the dogs weren't dead, they can't even respect an animal enough to f'king kill it before ripping off it's coat!

I was horrified when I took off my 961 seat hump to do my brake conversion only to find a 'Made In China' sticker on the ABS unit.
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I would kill a human being for the fact of them torturing a animal.
makes me sick!
I literally feel bad if I step on a bug.
how can one put a living creature through such pain?
disgusting
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Firstly... Not quite sure where I've 'defended' China and her products, as consumers it's a free market and we can buy from who or where we like, but good luck sourcing 'Made In England', the 'why's and wherefores' for that are a whole different ballgame....
Yes, animal welfare and cruelty is rife in China, but sadly that's endemic in most cultures if you care to dig, but many will be overlooked if there's mitigating circumstances. (Spanish holidays?)
You say: 'but it's not about the people..' But my view is IT IS... If you don't buy a fridge because it's: 'Made In China' who will that impact? I'm guessing the guy that makes it rather than Mr President. As I've pointed out elsewhere, trying to educate the natives is a risky business, and prone to backfiring. It's not an ideal world and never will be, Covid-19 has put the spotlight on China, but I'm guessing had it not happened, 99% of the world wouldn't have given a flying f*ck about China.
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"Made in England" is good but realistically if I can't have that I'll settle for "made anywhere else except China"! If you say good luck with that then you are illustrating just how dangerously dependent we are on Chinese goods. If the Chinese state becomes ever more powerful surely this impacts in the long run upon all of our lives. They most certainly shouldn't be building our nuclear power stations.

When production of fridges was moved from U.K. to China in the first place, did anyone give a stuff about how it impacted upon us?

If China doesn't change they should be made to, or suffer the consequences. Different scenario I know but economic sanctions by the U.S. and E.U., amongst others, against South Africa played a significant role in the overthrow of an oppressive apartheid regime.

All I can do personally is try, in my own small way, to boycott Chinese goods wherever possible.
 
Again.. I'm in no way 100% pro China... but: There is inhumanity and cruelty and exploitation in many other parts of the world, many being addressed, some sadly not because the mighty dollar/yen/mark/euro/pound would suffer because of it. Big business has tunnel vision and blinkers are cheap. Money talks the loudest and always will.
As for being: 'dangerously dependant on Chinese goods', I believe most of our service industries are bank rolled from abroad. Communications, transport infrastructure too. An awful lot of our manual labour is outsourced overseas, and let's not mention call centres!! Truth is, this 'dependancy' is far greater than just China.
And yes, you might think in most cases it's not a problem, but as we leave the EU noses are going to be put out of joint, and with what consequences? Shakey days ahead.......
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Again.. I'm in no way 100% pro China... but: There is inhumanity and cruelty and exploitation in many other parts of the world, many being addressed, some sadly not because the mighty dollar/yen/mark/euro/pound would suffer because of it. Big business has tunnel vision and blinkers are cheap. Money talks the loudest and always will.
As for being: 'dangerously dependant on Chinese goods', I believe most of our service industries are bank rolled from abroad. Communications, transport infrastructure too. An awful lot of our manual labour is outsourced overseas, and let's not mention call centres!! Truth is, this 'dependancy' is far greater than just China.
And yes, you might think in most cases it's not a problem, but as we leave the EU noses are going to be put out of joint, and with what consequences? Shakey days ahead.......
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Just because that is the way of the world doesn't mean it always has to be and we can't speak up against it, and just because outsourcing happens doesn't mean we are necessarily dependant upon it in all cases. There are examples of overseas call centres being brought back in-house again because of poor service.

My view over inhumanity and cruelty is - start with the (by far) worst offenders - China!
 
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