WM4 stainless or chrome rims unavailable?

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Fast Eddie said:
Central wheels stripped my hubs despite explicit instructions not to.

They then reassembled them incorrectly.

I had to insist, after lengthy discussion (arguments) with them to fit the rims I wanted, ie the rims specified by Avon. But Central Wheels remained adamant that they knew more than Avon.

They then lied about their stock levels and resultant lead times, resulting in a long wait.

When they did eventually build the wheels, they got the offset wrong.

I wanted butted spokes, but didn’t get them.

They also managed to fit tubes that failed to hold air.

And after all of that, I had to balance the wheels myself.

So... I’m keen to hear any recommendations of good wheel builders in the U.K...
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear of your lengthly troubles with this firm, but did you get an estimated invoice from them with all your specs written down in wrighting?
 
I think so Bernhard, it was 6 years or so ago now so I’m not entirely sure of the details, but not only was the request written, some of the exchanges were via email too.

Point taken though, one should do exactly that in such engagements with providers.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I think so Bernhard, it was 6 years or so ago now so I’m not entirely sure of the details, but not only was the request written, some of the exchanges were via email too.

Point taken though, one should do exactly that in such engagements with providers.
Click to expand...

Nigel,
A mate of mine had a very similar experience with Central, ruined a bearing housing, incorrectly assembled two hubs etc.
expensive and crap !
 
I stand to be corrected, but...

The original front tyre of 1969/70 was a 3.00 x 19 with different to later trail/rake?
It changed to 3.60 x 19 with revised trail/rake.

Folklore has it that when the tyre supplier (Dunlop) decided to up the price to Norton due to them buying two tyre sizes; 3.60 x 19 front & 4.10 x 19 rear
Norton (Norton's bean counters? ) being always short of money decided to use 4.10 x 19 on both ends. The Norton theory being the use of a narrow rim on
the front (WM2?) would give a smaller, narrower contact patch to the wider rim (WM3?) on the rear giving the rear a wider, larger contact patch. I don't know
the rim widths.

Over the past decades several noted Norton racers and Norton gurus have said to me that they lamented the change to the larger 4.10 front tyre as
it deadened the feel of the steering and that the 3.60 was much preferred. Several decades ago I changed back to a 3.60 then 90/90 x19. I found it
preferable on the twisty (and now much busier) roads of SE England and have to agree with the Gurus of old.

I await the flak :)
 
I suspect the 90/90 may have a significantly smaller diameter than the 3.60 19. That alone could create a difference in steering feel.
 
My point was the difference in feel of 4.10 versus the 3.60

And generally the Commando is said to be better with a narrower front tyre
 
Agreed the new 90/90/19 at 647mm diameter is lower than tyres of old

A new 3.25 x 19 Roadrider is 664mm diameter & a 4.10 x 19 AM9 is 667mm diameter
so I guess an old 3.60 x 19 would have been similar at 665 ? mm. Nearly 20mm smaller in diameter
and thus 10mm lower from wheel axel to ground
 
Fast Eddie said:
Kommando says Devon rim quality is not so good.
Click to expand...

No Eddie, he said that quality is not what it used to be, which may or may not be true - although without specific complaints from several buyers I wouldn't bother too much. Over the last 5 years I have been very happy with the quality offered (although I should point out that for practical reasons I had the rims dimpled and drilled by an outside firm).

-Knut
 
Staytite said:
The original front tyre of 1969/70 was a 3.00 x 19 with different to later trail/rake?
It changed to 3.60 x 19 with revised trail/rake.
Click to expand...

Original front tire for 1969/70 was listed as 3.00 X 19 ribbed tire. The 3.60H-19 TT100 K81 was an equivalent size due to its different profile. I have been told that some '70 'S' and Roadster models were imported to the US with this tire, but cannot find evidence from brochures or road tests that this support this. This tire (tyre) is still available in Europe and Canada, but oddly not in the US.

It is my understanding that the trail/rake was not changed until the 850 frame/forks.
 
Bernhard said:
I thought Borrani rims were no longer made?
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Yes, they are again now.

I was told by the distributor here that they are made in China and shipped back to Italy for distribution.

The old wheel builder in AKL who did my Excels is not too impressed with the new Borani and dropped them. His feedback was the seam was poor, and overall too many of the rims were too far out of round.
 
gortnipper said:
Yes, they are again now.

I was told by the distributor here that they are made in China and shipped back to Italy for distribution.

The old wheel builder in AKL who did my Excels is not too impressed with the new Borani and dropped them. His feedback was the seam was poor, and overall too many of the rims were too far out of round.
Click to expand...
Oh dear! More Chinese junk! No wonder Donald Trump wants to stop Chinese imports!
 
gortnipper said:
Yes, they are again now.

I was told by the distributor here that they are made in China and shipped back to Italy for distribution.

The old wheel builder in AKL who did my Excels is not too impressed with the new Borani and dropped them. His feedback was the seam was poor, and overall too many of the rims were too far out of round.
Click to expand...

The latest rumour/rumor is there might be two sources now and some new Boranni's are made in Italy.
(Maybe like when they fire up the Conti muffler factory once a year or so to do a run of $2000+ a pair mufflers)

#
I bought a set of forged Carrozzeria wheels in 2007, proudly 'Made in the USA said the decal.
What that actually meant back then was, made in Japan and then some machining done in the USA.
That might have changed now..........
#
It is odd that some modern production can not meet even 50 year old expectation which was taken for granted at the time.
Does it show machinery is not the problem but a lack of skilled labour.
 
Bernhard said:
Sorry to hear of your lengthy troubles with this firm, but did you get an estimated invoice from them with all your specs written down in writing?
Click to expand...

Fast Eddie must have got the UK cousin of the genius I dealt with........... and yes in my case I sent a short and precise email confirmation after my phone call that was acknowledged by the wheel builder and they still made a right royal screw up of the job.

If I had not done that (email) he would have denied (which he did at first) any form of mistake on his part.
There was never any form of apology.
It cost him at least four more sets of wheels.
Luckily since then I found a shop where the workmanship can not be faulted or their professionalism and happy demeanour.

http://asw.com.au/


I got them to go over a set of 47 year old Boranni wheels that I had laced and trued and was near astonished at the lack of run out on return, so little that I could not be bothered checking them after spinning each wheel.
The cost,$50 per wheel (US$35 / £25)
Great service and was surprised at the cost.... I will be a return customer and not bother doing my own wheels anymore.
 
I thought of using central wheels, must have known something . Bought the rims and spokes of them and got Colwood Wheelworks to build my wheels over the moon with the service , wm4 rims with the correct offset look fantastic ,just need some nice weather now.
 
kommando said:
Excel alloy rims seem to be the only 100% reliable source, I have not tried Andover Norton's rims but they only do chrome and I no longer use chrome. The best stainless rims I have used other than Devon pre current owner were made by Autonix of India but they are no longer produce them and the range was limited anyway. .......... Central Wheel make changes to the specs to suit them and not the customer, instead of 10 inner and 10 outer spokes with different head angles are per OEM they make 20 with a single head angle in between the 2 OEM angles as an example. As a builder you are left with a wheel with heads that do not sit right at the hub or extra work to change the head angle.
Click to expand...
Kommando and Eddie..Quite scary what you say about CWC ...After checking with Devon, they don't manufacture any WM4 for Nortons. Then you suggest Excel as being the only 100% reliable source. Do I have to worry about the right drilling pattern for the full width Norton rear hub?? You make me nervous :confused:
 
Best way to get the Excel rims drilled is to use a wheelbuilder who drills his own holes, I know of 3 in UK. If you ask the local motocross clubs, they should know someone who can get Excel rims undrilled and drill them.
 
Sergio, Have you tried Buchanan's? If they have what you want it won't be cheap but there will be no questions about quality. They are located in California.
Jim
 
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