Where is All The Oil Going?

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1 quart every 300 miles is a bunch. If you are out there thrashing the hell out of the motor, I would think it is possible you could put several ounces of oil out through that chain oiler depending on how that breather setup is done. My breather comes off the timing chest and I was getting a couple of ounces of oil in a catch can after 300 spirited miles.

Try the valve seal replacement with the motor whole, since you are game.

Pulling the spindles is a piece of cake. Can be done with a bolt, a nut, a thick washer, and a socket. Yanking it out with a modified dent puller seems violent to me. The screw type puller is a kinder gentler method and doesn't require a lot of heat.

I wouldn't worry about the 135psi compression test numbers. That old tractor engine will run with 135psi for a long time.

If you eventually rebuild the engine, put in a new cam, pistons, and so on in it, I seriously doubt the end result will be easier to kick over unless you can get dished pistons. If your motor is difficult to kick over now, you may still have a tight spot in the primary chain. I just rebuilt mine with high compression parts and it's really a PITA to kick over (regardless of what interweb experts imply), but I think I moved my gearbox back to install the oil lines and forgot to put it back where it should be. Primary chain has a tight spot in it most likely. Not a Commando and not easy or fun to check inside the primary. Has to be done by feel and "OMG not guess work" if the gearbox ever gets moved. Oops babbling again.
 
You mentioned primary not filling with engine oil. Have you confirmed that? I've had mine fill up and blow oil out the felt seal, oiling up tire and back of bike. Traced to a blown in half crankseal from wetsump starting. At a later time one of the three inner primary cover bolts come out, despite a new tabbed washer to hold it. Lost a fair bit of oil out sump and down past the the gasket, some build up in the primary case. Gotta locktite those three bolts IMHO.
 
Tornado said:
You mentioned primary not filling with engine oil. Have you confirmed that? I've had mine fill up and blow oil out the felt seal, oiling up tire and back of bike. Traced to a blown in half crankseal from wetsump starting. At a later time one of the three inner primary cover bolts come out, despite a new tabbed washer to hold it. Lost a fair bit of oil out sump and down past the the gasket, some build up in the primary case. Gotta locktite those three bolts IMHO.
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I'm running Type F ATF in the primary, I have removed it 2 times before I got a good seal at the bottom joint. Nice and red, no engine oil present.

Yes I used blue Loctite on those 3 bolts.
 
Another point, any chance you've mis-measured the oil level by having bike on an incline, side or centerstand or an issue with the oil tank cap fitting?
I've just fixed a leak from the oil filter mounting, one original hose had split near its hose clamp. Very hard to see/access without dropping the mount. Only discovered it after a good run, idling a min or so, walking around bike, saw a good puddle. Lost about half a litre in a 30 min ride.
 
Tornado said:
Another point, any chance you've mis-measured the oil level by having bike on an incline, side or centerstand or an issue with the oil tank cap fitting?
I've just fixed a leak from the oil filter mounting, one original hose had split near its hose clamp. Very hard to see/access without dropping the mount. Only discovered it after a good run, idling a min or so, walking around bike, saw a good puddle. Lost about half a litre in a 30 min ride.
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No leaks, not a drop but it did seem like it took more oil than specified to bring the level to the H mark on the dipstick when I changed to oil.
 
Dan1950 said:
No leaks, not a drop but it did seem like it took more oil than specified to bring the level to the H mark on the dipstick when I changed to oil.
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Did you pre-fill the new oil filter at this last change? It can suck a bit of volume when first starting otherwise, leading to some drop at the dipstick.
 
This looks suspicious. So much oil that it isn't collecting grime yet there is never a drop of oil under the bike when at rest after a ride of 180 miles or more.

Where is All The Oil Going?


I'm wondering if one of the return lines at the oil filter might be leaking at cruising speeds?
 
Schwany said:
If you eventually rebuild the engine, put in a new cam, pistons, and so on in it, I seriously doubt the end result will be easier to kick over unless you can get dished pistons. If your motor is difficult to kick over now, you may still have a tight spot in the primary chain.
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My bike kicks over quite nicely when I do the drill. I just think the right cam in a higher compression Commando might not be any harder to kick over than it is now.

I have found that even with high static compression ratios, the right cam can make kicking over easier than a stock engine. My 86 cu in Panhead had 10.5:1 pistons yet I could start it with my hand. Something that was impossible with a stock Big Twin engine.

It was also quite docile under 3000 RPM and could be run on unleaded regular in a pinch if you didn't lug it.
 
Dan1950 said:
This looks suspicious. So much oil that it isn't collecting grime yet there is never a drop of oil under the bike when at rest after a ride of 180 miles or more.

Where is All The Oil Going?


I'm wondering if one of the return lines at the oil filter might be leaking at cruising speeds?
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If either of those filter mount lines is leaking/damaged, you should get oil on outside of filter.
The mess on CS legs could just be typical SA spindle drool. Next to impossible to halt that on MKII.
 
Dan mentioned filled to H mark on dip stick , he has been told just halfway between marks is plenty right ? …. maybe easy test would be for him to drain all oil in engine sump & tank and measure to see what he has …. Could it be an odd dipper …. seems like an easy no sweat test
 
Craig said:
Dan mentioned filled to H mark on dip stick , he has been told just halfway between marks is plenty right ? …. maybe easy test would be for him to drain all oil in engine sump & tank and measure to see what he has …. Could it be an odd dipper …. seems like an easy no sweat test
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That's what I'm thinking. I seem to remember that 3 quarts did not bring the tank to the "H" mark.

I still want to do the valve seal replacement as the condition seems to be making the right cylinder run leaner yet cooler which is bass-ackwards IME.
 
Over fill the oil tank and oil will blow out the breather hose, one way to check that is remover the breather hose from the tank or where ever it goes and run it in a catch bottle a large clear one that has air holes in the top, if you are losing oil from the breather it will show pretty quickly if you are topping up every 300 miles, I been running a large clear plastic catch bottle for 40 years and should only get a slight dribble from a year's riding, the hose sits right down the bottom of the catch bottle, when my 850 was a Commando I was topping up oil in the tank quite regularly till I stopped filling up to the H mark, the H mark is to high for the oil level and don't give enough air space in the tank, once I lowered the oil level in the tank no more problems with top ups between oil changes, I haven't done a top up in 40 years now, I now run a round 3ltr alloy oil tank on my 850 Featherbed, 2ltr of oil and 1ltr air space in my oil tank, I also run a oil cooler, also have to run a breather hole and hose in the top of the oil tank as the tank will pressurise if you don't.
My large clear catch bottle sits between my engine/gear box cradle behind the GB, I also run a Yammy reed valve on the breather line just out from the back of the timing case where the breather comes out and the reed valve sits in front of the GB in between the engine cradle.
Also be looking at the hose clamps on your oil filter, that oil grease on the centre stand could just be from fling off the chain from chain lube, if it was oil from your motor it be all over your rear end and tyre if its bad.

Ashley
 
Dan1950 said:
My bike kicks over quite nicely when I do the drill. I just think the right cam in a higher compression Commando might not be any harder to kick over than it is now.

I have found that even with high static compression ratios, the right cam can make kicking over easier than a stock engine. My 86 cu in Panhead had 10.5:1 pistons yet I could start it with my hand. Something that was impossible with a stock Big Twin engine.

It was also quite docile under 3000 RPM and could be run on unleaded regular in a pinch if you didn't lug it.
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Oh, I thought you wanted it to be easier than it currently is. My misread.

Based on what you have found, I guess I have the wrong cam then. I can't remember what my Norton was like stock. Probably easier to start than it is today.

Next time you are in the Seattle area could you stop by and start my Norton by hand? I'd like to watch and take notes on how that is done. ;)
 
Schwany said:
Oh, I thought you wanted it to be easier than it currently is. My misread.

Based on what you have found, I guess I have the wrong cam then. I can't remember what my Norton was like stock. Probably easier to start than it is today.

Next time you are in the Seattle area could you stop by and start my Norton by hand? I'd like to watch and take notes on how that is done. ;)
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You had to know my Panhead. It developed little cylinder pressure when kick starting. To start by hand I would quickly push it through with multiple strokes. Usually it would fire off on about the 3rd stab.

When using my foot I would push it through without the key on, bring it to the top and give it one quick kick with ignition on. It usually started 1st kick warm.

With a cold engine I would pull up the "enrichment" device. Give it a few kicks with a closed throttle, one more kick with the throttle cracked, then ignition on and another kick. Usually 1st kick with ignition on.

Guys used to starting stock hogs could not get it started because they were looking for a solid pedal at TDC.
 
Dan1950 said:
My bike kicks over quite nicely when I do the drill. I just think the right cam in a higher compression Commando might not be any harder to kick over than it is now.

I have found that even with high static compression ratios, the right cam can make kicking over easier than a stock engine. My 86 cu in Panhead had 10.5:1 pistons yet I could start it with my hand. Something that was impossible with a stock Big Twin engine.

It was also quite docile under 3000 RPM and could be run on unleaded regular in a pinch if you didn't lug it.
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That’s what I thought when I put a Maney race cam in my 11:1 920. But it’s still very difficult to turn over. So I’m really not sure what cam you’d have to put in a Norton to achieve this.
 
Why not fit the improved MKIII kicker for more leverage or even the very nice RGM folding type if easier kicking is your goal? Seems changing the cam/CR on an old Norton may be putting more stress on the old girl unless other upgrades are undertaken.
 
Tornado said:
Why not fit the improved MKIII kicker for more leverage or even the very nice RGM folding type if easier kicking is your goal? Seems changing the cam/CR on an old Norton may be putting more stress on the old girl unless other upgrades are undertaken.
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I already have the MK III kicker and my goal isn't to make the bike easier to kick. It is very easy to start as it is now.

I would only go with a different cam grind if and when the engine is rebuilt at a higher compressor ratio.

When I first had my Panhead built as an 80 cubic inch stroker the guy that did the engine told me he was going to put a cam in it to make it easier to kick. When I increased the displacement to 86 cubic inches I found "$45 EXCH" written in Black permanent marker on the cam gear.

I guess it must be an old Harley stroker trick, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with high compression ratio Commando engines.

It has more advantages than easy kicking, it made the engine very docile at lower RPM and would allow the use of unleaded regular gas in a pinch.

I also installed a retrofit cam in a 350 Chevy small block that was designed to make the old 350 horsepower versions run on unleaded pump gas.

I built the engine with flat top pistons from a 71 rebuild kit with 68cc heads. The static compression ratio was 10.5:1 and the engine performed quite nicely on premium unleaded gas.

Using the cam grind to reduce cylinder pressure at low to mid-range RPM is nothing new. I'm surprised someone hasn't tried it with these Norton's.
 
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