Whats wrong with stock Champion plugs (2015)

I have had similar experiences with Champion plugs...a number of years ago I got some dud plugs straight out of the box. In recent years...no problems with the N7YC. Incidentally, the Champions I've sourced from British Cycle Supply (Canada) all appear to be manufactured in Mexico.

I seem to remember that at one time you could get Champion plugs made in Canada or USA, depending on the plug type...

Cheers
Grant

The biggest difference I see between makes is the fact that the heat range chart does not necessarily line up perfectly. IE. a Champion 7 grade seems to come out somewhere between a NGK 7 and an 8 for temperature.

As for a plug that fires with the least voltage the Denso fine wire plug is the winner in checks I have made. It also works on single coil installations.

http://densoautoparts.com/spark-plugs/iridium-long-life. Jim

My P!! pissed me off at first as fouled plugs in few 100 yds or at idle if not blipping like a stupid dragster in public and knew nothing about carb tuning at the time, so tried the ThunderFire Surface discharge plugs sold only by JCWhitney to become bane of all the hot snot triples, Tridents to H2smokes... and campus, city and state police but the strange plugs never let me down to be caught and never learned to tune carbs either, thankgoodness. Similar thing happened with pre-peel, oil leaks in chamber fouled when not on highish throttle and not even knowing where the ignition system was back in 1999. I got some late 1990s type surface discharge plugs after 5 days which solved fouling and allowed 6th day 200 mile trip with HD locals to a drag strip camp out rally to have rusted mufflers fall off which opened up top end power so got in line and took on the quickest wheelie barred 1200 cc drag only Sportster keeping ahead of it till lower 80s then out horse powered 2/3 way down 1/8 mile strip.

I wonder how much gap indexing matters with one type plug or another and may be a factor confusing us with brand of plug function of gap facing once installed. Surface discharge type do not have gap indexing issue.

comnoz said:

The biggest difference I see between makes is the fact that the heat range chart does not necessarily line up perfectly. IE. a Champion 7 grade seems to come out somewhere between a NGK 7 and an 8 for temp Jim

Click to expand...

I think thats the big problem with other makes of plugs, they say they are the same heat range to the N7Ys but in reality they aren't, when Champions went bad back in the 80s I changed plug brands to see what worked better, but at the end I just went back to the Champions and ended up staying with them, my Norton just runs so nice with them, but carbies tuned right also helps in the big picture, I always changed plugs at about 5,000 miles for best resuilts but that changed since I have been running with the Joe Hunt maggie, it runs a hotter spark and the Champions seem to be lasting forever (25,000 miles now) I pull my plugs out regular but as soon as I look at them I put them back in, why replace them when the Norton is starting and running so well, the plug gap is showing no wear at all and running so clean.

Ashley

A mate of mine with a small fleet of Brit bikes of all makes (yes his main ride is a '73 Roadster),swears by his Denso plugs especially for his 2 x Triumph 500 cc race bikes, using batteryless ignition systems.

Champions are available although I haven't used them in along time myself

Regard Mike

Hello All,
Last week a servo couldn't give me any fuel above 91 octane, desperate I put 8 litres in till I could put the 95 octane in I prefer. During the ride the bike started farting at about 3 grand, next servo I topped up with 98 octane, still a slight cough at 3000. I've been using NGK BPE7ES, after reading this topic I change to the Champion NY7c, cough gone, who would of thought the brand of plugs was the problem!

Peter

Chili said:

Hello All,
Last week a servo couldn't give me any fuel above 91 octane, desperate I put 8 litres in till I could put the 95 octane in I prefer. During the ride the bike started farting at about 3 grand, next servo I topped up with 98 octane, still a slight cough at 3000. I've been using NGK BPE7ES, after reading this topic I change to the Champion NY7c, cough gone, who would of thought the brand of plugs was the problem!

Peter

Click to expand...

Hi Peter.
NGK equivalent for Champion N7YC is BP7ES.
Both copper, I believe.
Ref: http://www.ngk.com.au/spark-plugs-part- ... mberB=N7YC

Hi
You're correct my fat fingers after a few sherbets don't necessarily go where my mind wants them to go!
I ought to have read what I'd typed.
Peter

Hi again Peter.
If you meant to type BPR7ES then that plug has a resistor but, I believe, the N7YC does not. That might be what makes the difference.
If you meant just the BP7ES then they should be apples to the N7YC (at least on paper).
I looked up BPE7ES but can't find that one.
Ta.

Back in the early 80's and riding a mildly built Yo Mama Ha XS650, I spent the better part of the summer swapping plug brands around. I'd always used Champions in earlier years, but, as noted, the quality appeared to be failing. NGK plugs returned the best overall performance from the standpoint of outright acceleration, cruise, and fuel mileage. I ended-up with the standard center wire, as the fine wire didn't make any measurable improvement, and was quite a bit more expensive. Based on this, I've stuck NGKs in everything I own.

In light of what's been discussed in this thread, I'll be switching the Norton back to Champions this week in anticipation of the 600 mile trip we're taking. I'll let you know how that goes when we get back towards the end of June.

Nathan

Iridium fine wire, Denso. Anything to enhance spark, even if just in theory. Never had to change them; they'll last longer than my rings/guides will. Iridium has a much higher melt point than platinum, a good thing but likely unnecessary in our engines but that's why I like them in high boost turbo cars too. Unlike platinum, iridium center electrodes don't melt/disappear while the fine wire enables ignition at high boost.

NGK makes iridium plugs too but I forget why I passed on them and went with the Densos. Maybe it was the availability of a projected nose.

Many OEM automotive plugs now come with a small pad of platinum on the underside of the ground electrode, in addition to a precious metal center electrode; it's to combat ground strap erosion and thence to ensure an automotive 100,000 mile emissions life.

Ignition systems also play a big part in how long spark plugs last, I now have had to 2 bikes that have run with a Joe Hunt maggie, my 1981 Triumph Thunderbird I put a old rebuilt Joe Hunt with the 2 rare earth magenets and never replaced the Champion plugs in the 9 years i ran it with the J/H and now the new 4 rare earth magenets J/H on my Norton which has a even hotter spark than the old J/Hs and my plugs are still as good as the day I put the J/H on just over 5 years now.

Ashley

Hi Needing
When I wrote the post last night I was going from "memory" , this morning I checked for another reason and found I had a pair of NGK BPR6ES, these had been working "perfectly" till the 91 octane petrol was used.
Now I'm confused again, Tri-spark, NGK resister caps and Tri-spark coils, if both the caps and the plugs are resistance parts, as someone posted before that is overdoing it?
Peter

Hi Peter.
The more resistance in the circuit the weaker but longer the spark duration is once it is able to jump the spark plug gap. There is high chance your plug leads are also resistance types.
The higher octane fuel probably got by with the high resistance but lower octane highlighted the problem for you. My thinking is, you could have 1. changed plugs, or 2. fitted wire core leads or 3. removed the resistor caps. I use resistor caps, (as specified for by electronic ignition and/or charging electronic makers) therefore have wire leads and plain plugs. I run Trispark ignition and coils as well and 95 fuel minimum (prefer 98 octane).
Ta.

Nater_Potater said:

In light of what's been discussed in this thread, I'll be switching the Norton back to Champions this week in anticipation of the 600 mile trip we're taking. I'll let you know how that goes when we get back towards the end of June.

Click to expand...

Installed new Champion N7YC plugs this morning. Started on the first kick (not unusual) so nothing lost there. It might be psychosomatic, but it seemed to idle a bit better. I hope so, because I was looking at dropping a good amount of change for an EI system with idle stabilization. If we're better now, that would be a real bonus.
Still anticipating the ride next week!

Nathan

p.s. Is it considered narcissistic to quote oneself?

The planned trip didn't happen for me, but I've since put over 600 miles on the new Champions, with no complaints. We went for a ride into the mountains yesterday (225 miles) from base camp of 2500 feet, over a mountain pass of 6400 feet, and it ran like a top. Throw in a couple of hard blasts in third gear for good measure. Fuel mileage appears unchanged from the NGKs (still a little early to tell).
Based on this, I see no deficit from either brand. I'll stick with the Champions, since that's what's on the plug wire cap...

Nathan

I run Champion N7Y or NGK BP7ES whichever is available at the time, I prefer NGK though, never had a problem with champion in my nortons either. I prefer NGK to champion in all other applications so it may be that I am biased.

Im also one of the guys who started with Champions in the 70s and latter switched to NGKs because of a few Champion failures.

And now mainly stay with NGK because they are what the local shop sells and they work. I also like the P - projected nose in the NGK.

Read what Gordon Jennings has to say about projected nose plugs. That guy knew a ton about tuning racing motorcycles!!

I have used NGK BP9ES in my 500 race bike for 8 years at least now. Morris magneto, 98 octane pump gas or methanol - and they work just great. Lots of race miles and lots of good results.

Chili said:

Hi Needing
When I wrote the post last night I was going from "memory" , this morning I checked for another reason and found I had a pair of NGK BPR6ES, these had been working "perfectly" till the 91 octane petrol was used.
Now I'm confused again, Tri-spark, NGK resister caps and Tri-spark coils, if both the caps and the plugs are resistance parts, as someone posted before that is overdoing it?
Peter

Click to expand...

I have TriSpark unit and was running resistor NGK plugs. non-resistor caps, but my quality Moroso leads also have resistance.
Just switched to non-resistor plugs and feel a noticeable bump in performance on my Combat.
As has been mentioned here before, ONE ignition component with resistance seems to be the ticket for the Trispark.

tomspro said:

Chili said:

Hi Needing
When I wrote the post last night I was going from "memory" , this morning I checked for another reason and found I had a pair of NGK BPR6ES, these had been working "perfectly" till the 91 octane petrol was used.
Now I'm confused again, Tri-spark, NGK resister caps and Tri-spark coils, if both the caps and the plugs are resistance parts, as someone posted before that is overdoing it?
Peter

Click to expand...

I have TriSpark unit and was running resistor NGK plugs. non-resistor caps, but my quality Moroso leads also have resistance.
Just switched to non-resistor plugs and feel a noticeable bump in performance on my Combat.
As has been mentioned here before, ONE ignition component with resistance seems to be the ticket for the Trispark.

Click to expand...

It seems that when running a digital EI some resistance is needed to prevent interference. I have a analog Boyer and was running solid wires, non-resistor caps and non-resistor plugs. I contacted Boyer about this and their answer was when using the analog unit the least about of resistance the better.
Pete