What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

"to get the performance and range I need the technology is around 10 years away"


This is the most often repeated line of bullshit in the EV ruse.

There have been incremental improvements in batteries, by using exotic materials and very costly processes.

But.....

They are still STORAGE BATTERIES.

To carry the amount of energy needed to do the work for the needed range, isn't going to magically triple because some WANT IT TO BE.
 
concours said:
"to get the performance and range I need the technology is around 10 years away"


This is the most often repeated line of bullshit in the EV ruse.

There have been incremental improvements in batteries, by using exotic materials and very costly processes.

But.....

They are still STORAGE BATTERIES.

To carry the amount of energy needed to do the work for the needed range, isn't going to magically triple because some WANT IT TO BE.
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Yep Concours, know you‘re not a fan🤣!

Politics aside though - I guess it rather depends on what the owner wants that ‘needed range‘ to be, right? If you’re a Sunday morning sports rider, out for a blast with your mates, then 150+ miles might well be sufficient. If you are commuting urban areas, same-same. Lots of examples of utility that is present now, despite other difficulties and some dubious environmental considerations.

It’s obvious that EV motorcycles are a long (long) way from being all things to all people - RTW adventure riders need not apply. Will (advanced cell/next gen) technology, time and ingenuity solve range/charging problems? Guess we’ll need to revisit the question in 5 years or so.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Yep Concours, know you‘re not a fan🤣!

Politics aside though - I guess it rather depends on what the owner wants that ‘needed range‘ to be, right? If you’re a Sunday morning sports rider, out for a blast with your mates, then 150+ miles might well be sufficient. If you are commuting urban areas, same-same. Lots of examples of utility that is present now, despite other difficulties and some dubious environmental considerations.

It’s obvious that EV motorcycles are a long (long) way from being all things to all people - RTW adventure riders need not apply. Will (advanced cell/next gen) technology, time and ingenuity solve range/charging problems? Guess we’ll need to revisit the question in 5 years or so.
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This isn't about "being a fan".

It's nuts & bolts. Physics. Facts.

The Dakar Rally even includes a Special Olympics for these pathetic POS vehicles.
Piddling along in the sand, no roost, no suspension action, etc.
going slow to save battery for their abbreviated circuit.
Rich people, wealthy companies pissing money away on a fallacy.
To promote a flawed ideology.

Your "advanced cell/next gen" is simply BS buzzword drivel used to keep the SantaClaus/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy story going.

The fact that it is being forced makes it clear it isn't viable.
 
Well I imagine a lot of electric bike owners from Energica to Maeving are very happy with their machines which they have purchased for all sorts of reasons in the same way that us 961 owners are seen as a peculiar, difficult-to-fathom-out lot by many more practically-minded bikers. And there is nothing wrong with that - it's great they can buy something which gives them pleasure to own and ride. What I am not happy about is the ban on new ICE motorcycles in the vague hope that industry will be pushed into coming up with a currently non-existent useable alternative. What we now have are pure electric vehicles (Hooray) which meet the rules for non-polluting vehicles (Hooray) but involve the exploitative extraction of chemicals from unstable countries (Booooo) which, along with the finished article, are built and shipped around the globe using polluting transport and electricity power sources heavily dependant on fossil fuels (Mega Boooo). Unless there is a very significant technological development the bikes on sale, once new ICE bikes are banned, will just not give the riding experience the majority of us want from a motorcycle. This will effectively kill the sort of motorcycle people buy to enjoy just leaving machines bought for their practicality in congested traffic.
 
Clive said:
Unless there is a very significant technological development the bikes on sale, once new ICE bikes are banned, will just not give the riding experience the majority of us want from a motorcycle. This will effectively kill the sort of motorcycle people buy to enjoy just leaving machines bought for their practicality in congested traffic.
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Which 'should' mean our 'classic' bikes will be sought after and worth more..... til they're banned of course lol
 
Clive said:
Well I have a 1977 'historic vehicle' Morgan 4/4 which now needs no MOT, no road tax, costs £100 a year to insure and I can drive it into the low emission zones. There's hope for us yet!
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Until the government decides to end that program.
 
Clive said:
Well I imagine a lot of electric bike owners from Energica to Maeving are very happy with their machines which they have purchased for all sorts of reasons in the same way that us 961 owners are seen as a peculiar, difficult-to-fathom-out lot by many more practically-minded bikers. And there is nothing wrong with that - it's great they can buy something which gives them pleasure to own and ride. What I am not happy about is the ban on new ICE motorcycles in the vague hope that industry will be pushed into coming up with a currently non-existent useable alternative. What we now have are pure electric vehicles (Hooray) which meet the rules for non-polluting vehicles (Hooray) but involve the exploitative extraction of chemicals from unstable countries (Booooo) which, along with the finished article, are built and shipped around the globe using polluting transport and electricity power sources heavily dependant on fossil fuels (Mega Boooo). Unless there is a very significant technological development the bikes on sale, once new ICE bikes are banned, will just not give the riding experience the majority of us want from a motorcycle. This will effectively kill the sort of motorcycle people buy to enjoy just leaving machines bought for their practicality in congested traffic.
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Some very inconvenient facts there for the virtuous EV folks.
But, the goal of the Davos folks is to basically restrict world citizens to commuting in their vehicles no more than 15 minutes from their homes/apartments/domiciles. They want to force people to use mass transit beyond that point. So really, globalization folks don't care about battery range of EVs. They want to eliminate options for transport, in order to tightly control world carbon output. They will use global climate change hysteria to justify the political controls needed to impose these authoritarian rules/laws against personal choice.:(
 
jan nelder said:
and there are non-metals battery technologies being researched, which MIGHT make large scale production much less environmentally damaging, and I believe Norton , among others , are tied up with one of those in the UK.
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Please, say more....
 
Dogsbody said:
This is the future
newatlas.com

Betavolt says its diamond nuclear battery can power devices for 50 years

China's Betavolt New Energy Technology has unveiled a new modular nuclear battery that uses a combination of a nickel-63 (⁶³Ni) radioactive isotope and a 4th-generation diamond semiconductor and can power a device for 50 years.
newatlas.com newatlas.com
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Sounds promising.

"According to the company, the BV100 is in pilot production with an eye on mass production. A larger one-watt version is expected in 2025. The energy density of the BV100 is rated at 10 times that of lithium batteries and is not prone to fire or explosions. Since it generates electricity rather than stores it in the form of chemical reactions, it is not subject to recharging cycle problems. The ⁶³Ni eventually decays into non-radioactive copper that poses a minimal environmental risk."

1. Does the tech scale up for use in EVs?
2. Nice that it is not prone to fire, explosions, and doesn't need charging. If an Ni powered vehicle is involved in an accident, can damaged cells leak radioactive Ni at the crash site? Will victims, or first responders be exposed to dangerous RA contaminants?
3. Nice that the Ni eventually decays into minimal risk, non-RA copper, but how long is eventually, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years?
4. Can the RA Ni in the batteries be used by terrorists to create a dirty bomb? Oops, this may be its Achilles heel to government authorities.
 
Most of us have a pretty good understanding of the various EV limitations, and our own view on the politics, environmental/ethical considerations (as it should be) - that discussion rarely ends in harmony:rolleyes:! Some are rigid, others less so. True to say though, that none of us know what influence future advancements in technology might bring; Dogsbody’s post above is example of that.

This VLOG is 12 months old but covers off pretty well where the industry is at currently I think. Long, but worth a watch.



Back on topic, is this likely to be similar to Norton‘s eventual offerings or does it represent more of a starting point for something better - noting the limitations of battery storage. Guess we’ll get a first look towards the back end of the year! A Norton logo! On the tank of an EV!? There will be curmudgeonly old bikers turning in their graves the world over🤣!

IMG_9549.jpeg
 
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"True to say though, that none of us know what influence future advancements in technology might bring; "

Santa Claus theory again.
 
concours said:
"True to say though, that none of us know what influence future advancements in technology might bring; "

Santa Claus theory again.
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Should’nt doubt the big fella mate - he knows a thing or two!

I’m guessing he raids his stash of magic reindeer dust when he needs to chill😂!

IMG_9554.jpeg
 
Clive said:
Well I have a 1977 'historic vehicle' Morgan 4/4 which now needs no MOT, no road tax, costs £100 a year to insure and I can drive it into the low emission zones. There's hope for us yet!
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Well that’s highly irresponsible & inappropriate Clive , on par with Sadig khan ( Mayor of London & pioneering climate activist ) ,who also known for his convoy of range rovers whilst walking his dogs miles from where he lives ( Body guards are in tow ,& not for autograph hunters ) Popular chap is the Mayor
 
EVs are the future and gradually becoming the present. When I bought my Chevy Volt plug in hybrid in 2012 I remember all the naysayers talking about fires and other exaggerated criticism. Since then over the past 11 plus years it has been a near maintenance free big money saver and I have used predominantly electric power for my commutes. It still has the same mileage range as it did when new. I recently purchased 3 e bikes which allow me to exercise to my ability and have some assistance as needed . I'm pushing 70 years old. In August I look forward to my next EV. And 835 horse power , 0 to 60 mph in 3 seconds Rivian R1t truck. Mileage range up to 350 to 400 miles per charge.
When I bought a home computer in 1985 I didn't expect it to be 5g and have huge, fast capacity. Tech takes time. Same with cell phones and everything else that once was the future and now is hard to imagine living without. Ev car prices are coming down as also happens with tech. New battery technology and components are becoming safer, more available and domestically produced in more friendly nations. The days of 600 miles per charge are not far away. A major effort in the USA to develope domestic ev components and production is currently in transition thanks to infrastructure legislation. Charging stations capable of over 100 kWh charging in less than an hour are available now. Charging statioms with multi brand compatability are popping up all over the highways and local businesses.
We can either compete in the EV world or leave it up to Asia and parts of Europe that are fully invested. Elon Musk says China is poised to dominate the EV market .
My philosophy is get on board now or get left behind. I still love my ICE vehicles but am not resistant to a necessary change.
 
BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
Well that’s highly irresponsible & inappropriate Clive , on par with Sadig khan ( Mayor of London & pioneering climate activist ) ,who also known for his convoy of range rovers whilst walking his dogs miles from where he lives ( Body guards are in tow ,& not for autograph hunters ) Popular chap is the Mayor
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I have owned that car since 1985 - how many cars would a 'normal' motorist buy/sell/scrap in that time with all the associated pollution eh??????

I do admit that I think my Betamax recorder might be nearing end-of-life though......
 
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