What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Norton just released their winter clothing line with a Christmas discount.
#WeDontHaveSparesButWeHaveSweaters

Definitely having one of those polar bear humper jumpers - that’s class!

Can anyone remember where the detail is of the new gear change link arm. We discussed it months back - can’t find it.

From memory, the link arm was the same but Norton had swapped out the rose joints (which come with) for larger items. A part number would be great.

Thanks

Stephen_Spencer said:

Definitely having one of those polar bear humper jumpers - that’s class!

Can anyone remember where the detail is of the new gear change link arm. We discussed it months back - can’t find it.

From memory, the link arm was the same but Norton had swapped out the rose joints (which come with) for larger items. A part number would be great.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Page 4

Thanks V2D3 - no idea why I couldn’t find that!

Stephen_Spencer said:

Thanks V2D3 - no idea why I couldn’t find that!

Click to expand...

OMG lock the thread!!!! Voodooo and Stephen actually being nice and agreeing on something!!

City Garage said:

OMG lock the thread!!!! Voodooo and Stephen actually being nice and agreeing on something!!

Click to expand...

I’m trying to turn a new leaf. It’s fall time.

Ok, I've submitted a parts enquiry.....see what happens

Stu Bodycote said:

Ok, I've submitted a parts enquiry.....see what happens

Click to expand...

Worked for me.

The Aus article was quite interesting to me, I thought it was quite telling who he mentioned first when talking about potential customers, maybe as a mid 30s year old I go against the grain as electric bikes don't appeal to me at all. I've daily rode as many know a 650ss for 4 years and 4 winters.

It's interesting in some ways almost like technology in our lives is creeping into overloading us all, alot of people I speak to who are my age are all saying the same.

Technology moves at such a fast pace if we take two careers I've had as an example and then apply them to my now aproach to motorcycles as a marketing case.

Industry 1
The Background
photography I used to be pretty decent at it placed in some prestigious competitions published internationally etc. One moment happened that will always stick with me I was invited to a symposium with a major stock library it was the time when a good picture could earn you 11k+ just from one image consistently a year, I remember the absolute outrage from alot of photographers when they announced microstock selling cheap and stacking it high it pretty much ruined the industry through technology then couple that at the end of the industry I was in a constant need for high end investment costs that within 12 months would be out of date very quickly.

The current thoughts
With regards to the photography I've actually started to return to shooting with film and analogue - why the cameras from the 30's 50's and 70's still work as intended and with the push on AI Imagery the tactile approach of film offers a semblance of genuine feel to it. As someone who when industry was very pro tech that's quite the turn about.

Industry 2 - Print
The Background
A life spent in print and lithography at the leading and cutting edge since I was a kid unfortunately that industry started to implode on itself an just before covid we lost our family company as many did, the presses got faster and faster more expensive out of date within a heartbeat and the software was all driven to subscription based, paper costs doubled and print numbers dwindled in part contributed by everyone going from 6,000 sheets per hour presses to 18,000 sheets per hour b2 and b1 presses.

I mention this because in an industry where there was plenty to go around technology made it so there suddenly wasn't, (not just speed but drying technologies etc)

I feel this applies slightly to what Norton may be looking at the comments about Millenials and Gen Z etc all strike a chord in some respects but I think they are missing something tbh.

Like the industries I've spent a lifetime in if something isn't done to get younger riders onto two wheels and progress them from push bikes and away from cars then the industry like the two I mentioned will be the cause of it's own demise.

I think in the UK the motorcycle companies and gov need to do two things - 1 reform the insurance industry - 2 reform the tests, the costs are so prohibitive to new riders over here it's no wonder the numbers have dwindled.

The other aspect of this is the luxurification of the industry as peoples wages go down the prices through inflation etc go up which isn't conductive for most people in my age bracket and under.
The problem with that and what I can see from Norton's perspective which most likley doesn't ally with what they are aiming for is again if they just market to the consumers 50+ in another 10 years where are the customers. It's telling when you walk round the bike shows in the UK and look at the average age.

What I find is very interesting is the amount of messages I get off youngsters 20s-30's as a relative term who are all craving motorcycles that are tactile with a back to basics approach.

The Moco's may be pushing us into motorcyles like the new 1300GS £28,000 or so fully loaded with so much tech if it breaks you are tied into taking it to a dealer.

Now with the Himalayan as well going from a low tech bike (which they wont sell you the manual for btw) (with reliability issues mine went back under the consumer goods act) to a more high tech liquid cooled bike with TFT.

I feel like the market is wide open for a sensibly priced single, in the ilk of what JasL intended the brand to be. Not only high end performance bikes but they still had the big4 with sidecar the every persons bike (i use that term as lots of women rode motorcycles in the 1920s)

That's an era of Norton history I probably know more about than most my age as I got very wrapped up in researching it when getting my 1927 16h flat tanker.
Riding that has really altered my opinion on motorcycling as a whole 4.9hp 252lbs how much power do we really need. Whipping along at 55 mph on a 96 year old motorcycle.
It really made me realise a few things.

When we talk about environmental issues how much attention is being paid rather than headline grabbing words like electrification the end of ICE bikes, to the fact that technology like the industries I was in has a lower shelf life like the comments Christian made about the Iphone 1.0 it doesn't matter how fancy something looks if it's not fit for purpose in my mind wont last then it's not the right approach.

Rather than chasing the next greatest thing if we approached making things last more serviceable that could have a better impact on the environment, it's crazy to think how many of our Norton's have outseen more modern bikes, working on the WD16H on the fade electronics hammered it home to

Which in a long way brings me back to what a high end designer told me once KISS keep it simple.

I think that's something we could all do with in our lives more, I know alot of people my age that are into older fashion 20's 40's 50's 60's etc an the vehicles that were from that era.

I think as well its a misnomer that people my age don't wanna spanner or do things, I was round at a friends house the other week helping him get started with his Dommi 88' resto he'd never done one before an after a few tips an advice as others did for me he's now well onto having it running.

I think it's telling as well from a wider industry perspective that ultimately we are being driven by designers and creatives in brands that perceive the industry through certain lenses, subscription based, high product value, high service values great for the industry companies but not great for the end user in whats approaching an economic depression it's gonna price alot of people out.

They seem to focus on what they want and not viscerally the customer try and go into BMW an buy a service tool even on a 23 year old bike they wont sell it you.

For me I think they are aiming for a collectors market, like the mention on his Rolex.

I think it was an interesting article that gave quite alot of the thinking when you cut through the usual repeated catch words.

I'd love to see Norton do another range of bikes as well as the electric bikes, talking about aspiration, sometimes if you start on a lower end model you stick with the brand for life those customers at the start of the journey are the ones that need capturing.

Alot of my friends my age and under are now ardent Royal Enfield fans, why because the bikes were affordable and started their love affair, the marketing off the brand was superb especially when it come to the Himalayan yes it's not all roses but they have the finger on the pulse of the bikes to get younger people riding like the Himalayan the Scram the Interceptor and the return of the bullets something for everyone.

Triumph are also no mugs look at the new 400's they are bringing out that will move younger people onto higher end Triumphs, I'm actually paying more now for an 1150gsa insurance wise than I did for a fireblade when I was 22.

If companies continue to price youngsters out then the UK Motorcycle industry is finished.

I feel it's so important to get the youngsters onto a Norton like they were in the 60s and before a nice 50 or 125 single and a 400 and 650 single would educate and instil what the brand is to people thats what RE have done you watch a Himalayan video and your heart flutters as you listen to the emotional words that inspire and create desire to ride an RE that's what Norton need to do.

Even now after the issues I had with mine RE still inspires and I keep a close eye on the bikes as I want to support a brand that supports bikes that everyone can experience.

In closing I hope a few of you enjoy my thought's as one of the younger members of our community of Norton owners.

I really wish Norton every success and hope they get the brand absolutely flying I nearly got a 961 myself in the SG era as they were drop dead gorgeous that didn't happen as the finance payments went right up just before I signed.

The more moco's that are about the better as it improves the breed through competition.

I think they missed the mark on the clothing if we are talking about the history of the brand reminds me of what a mod would wear. Great to see British companies being used.

Tj

savingclassicmotorcycles said:

The Aus article was quite interesting to me, I thought it was quite telling who he mentioned first when talking about potential customers, maybe as a mid 30s year old I go against the grain as electric bikes don't appeal to me at all. I've daily rode as many know a 650ss for 4 years and 4 winters.

It's interesting in some ways almost like technology in our lives is creeping into overloading us all, alot of people I speak to who are my age are all saying the same.

Technology moves at such a fast pace if we take two careers I've had as an example and then apply them to my now aproach to motorcycles as a marketing case.

Industry 1
The Background
photography I used to be pretty decent at it placed in some prestigious competitions published internationally etc. One moment happened that will always stick with me I was invited to a symposium with a major stock library it was the time when a good picture could earn you 11k+ just from one image consistently a year, I remember the absolute outrage from alot of photographers when they announced microstock selling cheap and stacking it high it pretty much ruined the industry through technology then couple that at the end of the industry I was in a constant need for high end investment costs that within 12 months would be out of date very quickly.

The current thoughts
With regards to the photography I've actually started to return to shooting with film and analogue - why the cameras from the 30's 50's and 70's still work as intended and with the push on AI Imagery the tactile approach of film offers a semblance of genuine feel to it. As someone who when industry was very pro tech that's quite the turn about.

Industry 2 - Print
The Background
A life spent in print and lithography at the leading and cutting edge since I was a kid unfortunately that industry started to implode on itself an just before covid we lost our family company as many did, the presses got faster and faster more expensive out of date within a heartbeat and the software was all driven to subscription based, paper costs doubled and print numbers dwindled in part contributed by everyone going from 6,000 sheets per hour presses to 18,000 sheets per hour b2 and b1 presses.

I mention this because in an industry where there was plenty to go around technology made it so there suddenly wasn't, (not just speed but drying technologies etc)

I feel this applies slightly to what Norton may be looking at the comments about Millenials and Gen Z etc all strike a chord in some respects but I think they are missing something tbh.

Like the industries I've spent a lifetime in if something isn't done to get younger riders onto two wheels and progress them from push bikes and away from cars then the industry like the two I mentioned will be the cause of it's own demise.

I think in the UK the motorcycle companies and gov need to do two things - 1 reform the insurance industry - 2 reform the tests, the costs are so prohibitive to new riders over here it's no wonder the numbers have dwindled.

The other aspect of this is the luxurification of the industry as peoples wages go down the prices through inflation etc go up which isn't conductive for most people in my age bracket and under.
The problem with that and what I can see from Norton's perspective which most likley doesn't ally with what they are aiming for is again if they just market to the consumers 50+ in another 10 years where are the customers. It's telling when you walk round the bike shows in the UK and look at the average age.

What I find is very interesting is the amount of messages I get off youngsters 20s-30's as a relative term who are all craving motorcycles that are tactile with a back to basics approach.

The Moco's may be pushing us into motorcyles like the new 1300GS £28,000 or so fully loaded with so much tech if it breaks you are tied into taking it to a dealer.

Now with the Himalayan as well going from a low tech bike (which they wont sell you the manual for btw) (with reliability issues mine went back under the consumer goods act) to a more high tech liquid cooled bike with TFT.

I feel like the market is wide open for a sensibly priced single, in the ilk of what JasL intended the brand to be. Not only high end performance bikes but they still had the big4 with sidecar the every persons bike (i use that term as lots of women rode motorcycles in the 1920s)

That's an era of Norton history I probably know more about than most my age as I got very wrapped up in researching it when getting my 1927 16h flat tanker.
Riding that has really altered my opinion on motorcycling as a whole 4.9hp 252lbs how much power do we really need. Whipping along at 55 mph on a 96 year old motorcycle.
It really made me realise a few things.

When we talk about environmental issues how much attention is being paid rather than headline grabbing words like electrification the end of ICE bikes, to the fact that technology like the industries I was in has a lower shelf life like the comments Christian made about the Iphone 1.0 it doesn't matter how fancy something looks if it's not fit for purpose in my mind wont last then it's not the right approach.

Rather than chasing the next greatest thing if we approached making things last more serviceable that could have a better impact on the environment, it's crazy to think how many of our Norton's have outseen more modern bikes, working on the WD16H on the fade electronics hammered it home to

Which in a long way brings me back to what a high end designer told me once KISS keep it simple.

I think that's something we could all do with in our lives more, I know alot of people my age that are into older fashion 20's 40's 50's 60's etc an the vehicles that were from that era.

I think as well its a misnomer that people my age don't wanna spanner or do things, I was round at a friends house the other week helping him get started with his Dommi 88' resto he'd never done one before an after a few tips an advice as others did for me he's now well onto having it running.

I think it's telling as well from a wider industry perspective that ultimately we are being driven by designers and creatives in brands that perceive the industry through certain lenses, subscription based, high product value, high service values great for the industry companies but not great for the end user in whats approaching an economic depression it's gonna price alot of people out.

They seem to focus on what they want and not viscerally the customer try and go into BMW an buy a service tool even on a 23 year old bike they wont sell it you.

For me I think they are aiming for a collectors market, like the mention on his Rolex.

I think it was an interesting article that gave quite alot of the thinking when you cut through the usual repeated catch words.

I'd love to see Norton do another range of bikes as well as the electric bikes, talking about aspiration, sometimes if you start on a lower end model you stick with the brand for life those customers at the start of the journey are the ones that need capturing.

Alot of my friends my age and under are now ardent Royal Enfield fans, why because the bikes were affordable and started their love affair, the marketing off the brand was superb especially when it come to the Himalayan yes it's not all roses but they have the finger on the pulse of the bikes to get younger people riding like the Himalayan the Scram the Interceptor and the return of the bullets something for everyone.

Triumph are also no mugs look at the new 400's they are bringing out that will move younger people onto higher end Triumphs, I'm actually paying more now for an 1150gsa insurance wise than I did for a fireblade when I was 22.

If companies continue to price youngsters out then the UK Motorcycle industry is finished.

I feel it's so important to get the youngsters onto a Norton like they were in the 60s and before a nice 50 or 125 single and a 400 and 650 single would educate and instil what the brand is to people thats what RE have done you watch a Himalayan video and your heart flutters as you listen to the emotional words that inspire and create desire to ride an RE that's what Norton need to do.

Even now after the issues I had with mine RE still inspires and I keep a close eye on the bikes as I want to support a brand that supports bikes that everyone can experience.

In closing I hope a few of you enjoy my thought's as one of the younger members of our community of Norton owners.

I really wish Norton every success and hope they get the brand absolutely flying I nearly got a 961 myself in the SG era as they were drop dead gorgeous that didn't happen as the finance payments went right up just before I signed.

The more moco's that are about the better as it improves the breed through competition.

I think they missed the mark on the clothing if we are talking about the history of the brand reminds me of what a mod would wear. Great to see British companies being used.

Tj

Click to expand...

This again is why I feel Donington had a better feel for its customers.
The we’re expanding the brand and the atlas bikes were more affordable for younger riders and looked great.

To me, Norton now, is out of reach and I feel, in my opinion, They don’t have the passion as Donington does.
I know Garner was a crook, but as an owner, who was involved in the process of Norton. He had the passion. TVS just owns the Norton brand, I don’t see them as a passionate owner.
That’s my opinion

Voodooo said:

This again is why I feel Donington had a better feel for its customers.
The we’re expanding the brand and the atlas bikes were more affordable for younger riders and looked great.

To me, Norton now, is out of reach and I feel, in my opinion, They don’t have the passion as Donington does.
I know Garner was a crook, but as an owner, who was involved in the process of Norton. He had the passion. TVS just owns the Norton brand, I don’t see them as a passionate owner.
That’s my opinion

Click to expand...

I‘ve had a good ponder over this. Then there was a chat about the JPS colour scheme V4 in another thread. I posted how I saw that at the NEC, that was the same show where they showed the two Atlas Scramblers, the Superlight, the supercharged Superlight etc.

Voodooo is right. During this period Norton had that feeling of being the audacious underdog. Some plucky Brits punching above their weight, and fearlessly taking on the big boys.

They were into motorcycles. And racing. And being outrageous. What they were teasing us with was raw and exciting and properly stuck two fingers up to industry convention.

Sadly we cannot say that now. Norton has the corporate gloss, the luxury brand BS peddled by Gladrags. Etc.

If Donington Norton was Punk Rock. TVS Norton is starting to feel like a corporate created, polished to appeal to everyone, boy band…

All only IMHO of course.

Fast Eddie said:

I‘ve had a good ponder over this. Then there was a chat about the JPS colour scheme V4 in another thread. I posted how I saw that at the NEC, that was the same show where they showed the two Atlas Scramblers, the Superlight, the supercharged Superlight etc.

Voodooo is right. During this period Norton had that feeling of being the audacious underdog. Some plucky Brits punching above their weight, and fearlessly taking on the big boys.

They were into motorcycles. And racing. And being outrageous. What they were teasing us with was raw and exciting and properly stuck two fingers up to industry convention.

Sadly we cannot say that now. Norton has the corporate gloss, the luxury brand BS peddled by Gladrags. Etc.

If Donington Norton was Punk Rock. TVS Norton is starting to feel like a corporate created, polished to appeal to everyone, boy band…

All only IMHO of course.

Click to expand...

Probably quite true.
But how many times can Norton be owned/operated by folks who can't, or won't understand the basics of manufacturing business? How many times must Norton pass into receivership because its owners are short sighted, or incompetent?
TVS/Norton may appear to be unconcerned about Legacy owners, but at least they seem to have a plan for moving the brand forward. They're not moving at the speed I'd like to see, or in the manner I'd prefer, but I hope their plan results in a brand that can match the prestige of its past.

BritTwit said:

Probably quite true.
But how many times can Norton be owned/operated by folks who can't, or won't understand the basics of manufacturing business? How many times must Norton pass into receivership because its owners are short sighted, or incompetent?
TVS/Norton may appear to be unconcerned about Legacy owners, but at least they seem to have a plan for moving the brand forward. They're not moving at the speed I'd like to see, or in the manner I'd prefer, but I hope their plan results in a brand that can match the prestige of its past.

Click to expand...

Why is it that on Facebook and Instagram, TVS Norton constantly shows motorcycles of Nortons past? Bikes that have a racing history or were iconic.
They refuse to show n tell us about anything they claim is in the works.

They provide no news, no information, no details, no nothing.
They fail at keeping its customer base excited and intrigued.

How are potential customers that have been waiting for 3 years going to feel when TVS Norton finally shows us all the EV scooter they’ve been working on.

I’ve never once seen a brand of any kind, of any vehicle, keep everything so secret and out of the public’s eyes as Tvs Norton.
It’s like they’re working on the Manhattan Project.

I guess that part of the History of Norton goes right back to the start with JasL Norton when he sold to Shelly,

Norton for me always had the feeling of that plucky underdog spirit as Eddie says, throughout all the eras,
In the 1920s as well as marketing them as unapproachable, that Performance was a given along with reliability, an to quote some of the Norton adverts,

Great Britain leads the world in motor cycle construction, That is an unchangeable statement, an undeniable fact.

Foreign countries follow in the trails blazed by the Britisher and the British Motor Cycle remains supreme. But it does not follow that every British built machine is produced to a high standard that has established our supremacy. There are so many interpretations of the term "British Built." A manufacturer may buy his magnetos, frames, tyres- even his engines- from abroad and, having assembled them in Great Britain, label them "British Built."

Let us stress the fact that Norton is not a naturalised Britisher of this kind. It is more than merley British built. It is of the British origin, design and make- down to the very smallest nut and bolt. It is a specialised machine. Then it goes on about quality etc.

In another one of the brochures a fav line is the following

The single cylinder "Big four" Norton machine is still in the hands of the ordinary rider(my fav bit) equal in power output to the average big twin. The demand for the O.H.V. Model this season has been nothing less than phenomenal an we do not intend to make this a mass production model but a specialized product in which every possible attention is given to the most minute details One or two modifications have been made to the 16H to make this a fast touring machine

Whether the purchaser of a Motor Cycle desires a machine with which he can enter for speed and reliability events or one for use in the conventional way, he will find his ideal mount in the Norton range.

it then went on about finest possible materials and high quality workmanship as a given an the new sidecar range for semi sports, and family.

so even though they had specialised high end motorcycles they still had the big4 for the rest of us.
swinging back to the Aus article it doesn't fill me with the greatest of confidence that we all will be the target market.

Bearing in mind the Big4 was Jas L's fav model he did 3,000 miles across africa on it, in horrendous weather while ill and with a sidecar is testament to it. a 285lbs motorcycle that would do 50 with a loaded sidecar and climb any hill.

If it was me I'd structure it as the following

Energette 50 and Electra 125 to appeal to the younger riders who love retro (look at the success of Mutt Motorcycles and the new AJS I know alot of younger riders on them)

It'd be great if they got a 633cc single out with the the big4 name on it the Big Four, Utility Norton the Norton one. especially as I said before with the Himalayan going all modern. seems to leave the market right open for one. more legs than the 410 Himalayan but British built with vintage looks.

Then a 16h the sporting single a 500 or 410 which seems to be the trend now
The Norton WD16H that was the main Norton for the war effort n represented a quarter of all war motorcycle production 100,000 bikes (BSA was the main producer)

Looking at TVS an the stuff they build for others they sure could pull a few current singles out of the bag.

An revive the atlas Scrambler to take on the Triumph Scrambler range which is massively popular.

I still feel like Norton need to do the smaller sub 500cc stuff to try connect with the younger riders who tbh Yamaha Honda an now AJS etc are now the go to as the Japanese bikes become to expensive, most people starting like my cousin did on a CBR125 an I was on a rs125 two stroke we both had other bikes from the brands again as we progressed through the bikes.

I really hope they manage to make a go of it but Voodoo and Eddie added to my previous post, it just feels to sterile now in the marketing posts website etc like when there's an opportunity to wax lyrical about the history of the Big4 in the latest blog post it reads like a text book where as if you look at Enfields approach (bearing in mind mine had issues) I still get inspired by the copy and the videos etc an it most likely could be a brand I revisit next year. The sort of marketing that makes you heart skip a beat like this one

This for me is still the gold standard in cinematography and story telling to inspire to by a motorcycle, it still makes me want to give them another look an that's after having issues with one.



or these
just come out today Sidal Lal talking about the new Himmy that's what Norton is missing for my liking




They constantly seem to be building excitement interest and a feel of connection to the brand. Well for me anyway. This is something as others have said Norton could do with cracking on with.

The specs are wrong as well for a 1921 Big 4 that's pictured on the norton site much later big4 specs (my 1927 16h only has 4.9hp an 252lbs)
When they mentioned the later big4 rather than saying aged they could have said today it remains one of the most sought after WD bikes that remembers those who gave their tomorrows for our today with one of the highest price tags to own right up there on the top of my lists for the future.

It's a shame they dropped the 650s as well I was in love with those things, an I know it was really turning a few heads for mates my age that have the modern Triumph's as it was priced keenly against them. Having ridden the 650ss for 4 years an 4 winters (unitl my nerve injury put a stop to it) as well as having ridden superbikes like the Fireblade in winter I feel like the 650 twin is such a sweet spot an heck! If these 20mph zones continue to spread even those will be to much for over here.

Looking at modern bikes at the mo it's only the Enfield's that are catching my eye even after a bad experience.

Let's hope they pull something out of the bag though. As Voodoo an Eddie said they really need to start building some excitement up.

Look at Enfield with the 450 Himalayan the worst kept secret from one of the oldest bike marques left an it was obv teased on purpose, even itchyboot's is riding a pre production now everyone I know is talking about it.

On another note looking at registered trademarks which is free to view might give an indication to what they are up to.

27-10-2020 Norton Electra - Application Opposed
27-10-2020 Norton Fastback- Application Registered
27-10-2020 Norton Nomad - Application Registered
21-01-2021 Norton Navigator
11-01-2021 Norton Combat
11-01-2021 Norton Manx
11-01-2021 Norton Atlas
31-05-2022 Norton Roadholder
16-02-2022 Norton Ranger- Application Registered -
UK00003755386 Owner The Norton Motorcycle Co LTD

Voodooo said:

Why is it that on Facebook and Instagram, TVS Norton constantly shows motorcycles of Nortons past? Bikes that have a racing history or were iconic.
They refuse to show n tell us about anything they claim is in the works.

They provide no news, no information, no details, no nothing.
They fail at keeping its customer base excited and intrigued.

How are potential customers that have been waiting for 3 years going to feel when TVS Norton finally shows us all the EV scooter they’ve been working on.

I’ve never once seen a brand of any kind, of any vehicle, keep everything so secret and out of the public’s eyes as Tvs Norton.
It’s like they’re working on the Manhattan Project.

Click to expand...

It's TVS Norton management style.
They won't change, it is what it is.
I suspect that there will be no substantive change until EICMA 2024.
Oh, they may do another peek-a-boo website with dark shadowy glimpses of new models a month or two beforehand.
But Dr. Bob will wait for EICMA to release real info on the new machines.
Until then, let's all flail away at them for their intransigence to give us what we want, right now!

I think most agree that rather than building expectation and excitement the current Norton approach seems to be building frustration (for some anyway). Certainly true that to generate excitement the enthusiast (and potential buyer) needs more than the hint of model types to come, buried deep in FB posts or glossy one-on-one interviews.

That said, they have explained why they have taken that approach, at this stage in the company’s development. I don’t believe it will be their enduring management style.

They’re certainly not at the stage where RE is obviously - and are aiming at the opposite end of the market of course. Not so much young, careferee and looking to adventure on a budget.

That worries me slightly though - ya can find quotes that say ‘something for everyone’, which I’ve taken to mean price range. I’m not sure that is accurate though; it may just hint at product line. If they are truly going entirely premium/luxury then where does that leave the younger rider SCM talks about above - maybe they don’t figure at all and that would be a shame (mistake?).

Gladwell says that Norton do not want to be Triumph, my guess because that would likely be impossible to replicate in the now uber-competitive environment, especially with electrification on the horizon. But surely having so narrow a target demographic would be challenging.

Although he also states that ‘luxury does not mean expensive’ so who knows. There are certainly contradictions to be had - throw EV’s in the mix and ‘opaque’ about describes it at present. I’m thinking BT’s guess at EICMA 24 is probably spot on.

Interesting list of trademark registrations in SCM’s post. There were multiple references to the Nomad/Ranger being ‘shelved for now’ last year and more than a little dissatisfaction at that decision. What’s the chances!?

BritTwit said:

It's TVS Norton management style.
They won't change, it is what it is.
I suspect that there will be no substantive change until EICMA 2024.
Oh, they may do another peek-a-boo website with dark shadowy glimpses of new models a month or two beforehand.
But Dr. Bob will wait for EICMA to release real info on the new machines.
Until then, let's all flail away at them for their intransigence to give us what we want, right now!

Click to expand...

In my opinion, they’re losing customer interest

The latest is that they have a new Mazak to machine the cast aluminium components on the assembled frames to achieve greater accuracy. Great idea, but cast aluminium on frame sections.

BritTwit said:

It's TVS Norton management style.
They won't change, it is what it is.
I suspect that there will be no substantive change until EICMA 2024.
Oh, they may do another peek-a-boo website with dark shadowy glimpses of new models a month or two beforehand.
But Dr. Bob will wait for EICMA to release real info on the new machines.
Until then, let's all flail away at them for their intransigence to give us what we want, right now!

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You might be correct, and I suspect something will be announced but nothing physical to be seen. Considering it is 12 months away and at this point you would expect a model or two be nearly ready to road test, at an international show they would have to have dealers ready to be in place in Europe etc, we have seen or heard none of that so I suspect there will be nothing new to be seen at the show, just the 961 and V4.

Madnorton said:

The latest is that they have a new Mazak to machine the cast aluminium components on the assembled frames to achieve greater accuracy. Great idea, but cast aluminium on frame sections.

You might be correct, and I suspect something will be announced but nothing physical to be seen. Considering it is 12 months away and at this point you would expect a model or two be nearly ready to road test, at an international show they would have to have dealers ready to be in place in Europe etc, we have seen or heard none of that so I suspect there will be nothing new to be seen at the show, just the 961 and V4.

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Cast aluminium components?

Voodooo said:

In my opinion, they’re losing customer interest

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Chatted to a mate the other day and despite him liking the bikes his disinterested grunt and a quip of " don't worry they'll be going bust before anything really interesting happens " says it all for me.

The snapshot of public opinion displayed above ( despite him wanting them to succeed ) tells me there is a greater expectation of failure than there is of success.