what are the better clutch plates to buy for 850

concours · Sep 16, 2014

ludwig said:
This is how my Surflex plates looked after only 10 000 km .
A few 1000 more and no more drive :

I now only use the original full fibre plates dry ( belt) in combination with 3 narrow steel and an allloy centre :

They do squeal somewhat, but I don't mind ..

"Orbiting" of the basket, relative to the mainshaft/hub can cause that type of accelerated wear. (Barnett, as well, or bronze/steel grooving the hub). Loose bearing in the basket, worn sleeve gear bushes and/or bearing, incorrect primary drive tensioning as well could cause the orbiting.

bill · Sep 16, 2014

I found the same thing with the NEW surflex plates. for that reason I buy every original one I find as they are not a bonded plate but a solid fiber.

ludwig said:
This is how my Surflex plates looked after only 10 000 km .
A few 1000 more and no more drive :

I now only use the original full fibre plates dry ( belt) in combination with 3 narrow steel and an allloy centre :
They do squeal somewhat, but I don't mind ..

kerinorton · Sep 17, 2014

My 850 plates started looking like those worn Sureflex plates. The originals seem to cost a hell of a lot. the Barnet's are definitely cheaper. If we have to strip and clean say once a year or two, then there may be no disadvantage of buying the cheaper plates unless they only last 10% of the distance the original bronze plates last.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm still pondering.
Dereck

Ps the way my bronze plates are working at the moment, I would go for the originals as I have not had to look at them for nearly 2 1/2 years I think [ since I did the gearbox ].

Hortons Norton · Sep 17, 2014

I feel the whole clutch could or should be redesigned? Where's my pencil. Or better yet where is B.D.M.?

ashman · Sep 17, 2014

I don't know why most run fiber plates as I have had no problems with my bronze plates, in my younger days I use to do so many burnouts, yes I know young and silly, but I still have the same plates, have a very smooth clutch as well as a light clutch and after 39 years of use they are still working well, I ran the bronze dry when I had my belt drive, they did bite quicker but I got use to that real quick, but now back to chain drive, I have never had any problems with stack height, my gearbox is a very smooth change and I have never had to free them up before starting, maybe I have just been lucky or the Norton gods have been looking after me and if I ever do need to replace them I know which ones I will be using.

Ashley

lcrken · Sep 17, 2014

Interesting plates. The concept looks good. I'll be looking forward to seeing how they work out for Jim.

I recall someone back in the day coming up with a similar idea using the stock bronze plates, chucking them in a lathe and turning away part of the friction area from the inside, leaving a smaller surface area for higher unit pressure, and all out towards the outer circumference of the plate. I don't recall any info on how well it worked.

Ken

comnoz · Sep 17, 2014

I ran the original bronze plates for years. I think they would wear out two clutch centers before the tangs would wear out. I have never seen a set with worn out friction surfaces.

I ran them until I started getting too much power from the motor and then I still ran them for a couple years by stacking two diaphragm springs, one on top of the other -but it made for a bit of a manly pull at the lever.

Then I went to Barnetts. The old high grip plates would handle the power but they were harsh and squealed. Then I went to the newer style. They just barely handled the power and squealed severely.

I tried the solid fiber surflex but with only four plates due to the thickness they slipped. I guess if you grind the plates from 2mm to 1.5 mm you can get five in but I haven't tried it.

I tried a set of sureflex with the aluminum centers. They acted just like the later model Barnetts and the centers lasted about the same. Maybe a little less squeal.

So far I really like the feel of the narrow bronze plates. Smooth engagement and no slip -yet. [or course they never slip when they are new]
I will let you know what I think of them after the next big trip. Jim

ashman · Sep 17, 2014

I have only just replaced the clutch centre this year for the first time in 39 years, it had wear in it for sometime but my clutch still worked OK, I have a hot motor, I don't know why anyone would want to redesign the Commando clutch as I think it works great, I am going to run a Commando clutch on my project bike a 1960 Manxman and have a spare Commando clutch as well as the new centre to fit the Dommie box and belt drive so won't be running the primary case at all, its going to be a true caferacer from the 60's.

Ashley

Snorton74 · Sep 17, 2014

Squealing versus prematurely worn clutch center. Not sure which I like less.

Hortons Norton · Sep 17, 2014

ashman said:
I don't know why anyone would want to redesign the Commando clutch as I think it works great,

I think the first reason would be weight, the second being performance. It must be twice the weight of most others. :wink:

comnoz · Sep 17, 2014

Snorton74 said:
Squealing versus prematurely worn clutch center. Not sure which I like less.

I will bet I can get 40 or 50 K miles from a clutch center with the steel plates. [and if it wears out I have a lifetime supply] Jim

ashman · Sep 18, 2014

Well my Norton has well over 130,000 miles on it and I have only just replaced the clutch centre for the first time in 39 years, I am still using the orginal steel and bronze plates and my Norton was a every day ride untill last year when I brought a new Triumph Thurxton, my motor has only been rebuilt 2 times (by me) but the last rebuild was to replace the crank cases because of a major fracture around the main oil seal (the thinest part of the motor).

Ashley

kerinorton · Sep 18, 2014

ashman said:
I don't know why most run fiber plates as I have had no problems with my bronze plates, in my younger days I use to do so many burnouts, yes I know young and silly, but I still have the same plates, have a very smooth clutch as well as a light clutch and after 39 years of use they are still working well, I ran the bronze dry when I had my belt drive, they did bite quicker but I got use to that real quick, but now back to chain drive, I have never had any problems with stack height, my gearbox is a very smooth change and I have never had to free them up before starting, maybe I have just been lucky or the Norton gods have been looking after me and if I ever do need to replace them I know which ones I will be using.

Ashley

+1 that. Dereck

Snorton74 · Sep 18, 2014

comnoz said:
Snorton74 said:

Squealing versus prematurely worn clutch center. Not sure which I like less.

Click to expand...

I will bet I can get 40 or 50 K miles from a clutch center with the steel plates. [and if it wears out I have a lifetime supply] Jim

Impressive. I'm going to be running your hydraulic clutch with a Norvil beltdrive and original bronze plates. Hopefully I get decent mileage out of my clutch center. If you meant that you have a lifetime supply of mad skills and motivation goin for ya, then I'd have to agree. I'm watching less TV so it must be rubbing off a little, lol.

commando6868 · Sep 21, 2014

1up3down said:
I assume your regular steel non friction clutch plates are still just fine, maybe deglaze them annually

ah, but on to friction plates

you could buy the cheap friction plates, made by Barnett, they are less than $20 each

and the major problem with them is that the tangs that locate the plates into the clutch hub are made out of thin aluminum and so they rattle about and the tangs get worn to spikey nibbons, and then you buy new Barnett plates, regularly

OR, you bite the bullet and pay a lot more for good quality genuine Norton friction plates, and they last and last

I am getting tired of buying Barnett plates and having to replace them too often so next time I will buy AN friction plates and quit trying to pride myself on saving money, I suggest you do the same

This week I will be inspecting my clutch plates and center, The clutch has been dragging at stops this season. the Barnett plates were put in at 18,000 miles, now at 66,500 miles. No squeal, or slipping and I have the clutch rod seal. I will be following the advice on Atlantic Green when I put new plates in. Not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things for new clutch plates.

comnoz · Sep 26, 2014

I am really liking the new narrow bronze plates in my bike. I have about 200 miles on them now and no slip and nice smooth quiet engagement.
When I pass a car and make a full throttle upshift I don't have to count to 3 waiting for the clutch to hook up solid again. [but the trans may not like them so well.] Jim

Fast Eddie · Sep 27, 2014

comnoz said:
I am really liking the new narrow bronze plates in my bike. I have about 200 miles on them now and no slip and nice smooth quiet engagement.
When I pass a car and make a full throttle upshift I don't have to count to 3 waiting for the clutch to hook up solid again. [but the trans may not like them so well.] Jim

Jim,

Are they bronze pads bonded to a steel backplate?

It seems I was premature in my praise of my Barnet set up as it has started slipping, only under hard acceleration and above 6,000rpm, but I clearly need to do something different here.

Do you know where they came from and / or where they can be bought in the UK?

comnoz · Sep 27, 2014

Fast Eddie said:
comnoz said:

I am really liking the new narrow bronze plates in my bike. I have about 200 miles on them now and no slip and nice smooth quiet engagement.
When I pass a car and make a full throttle upshift I don't have to count to 3 waiting for the clutch to hook up solid again. [but the trans may not like them so well.] Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,

Are they bronze pads bonded to a steel backplate?

It seems I was premature in my praise of my Barnet set up as it has started slipping, only under hard acceleration and above 6,000rpm, but I clearly need to do something different here.

Do you know where they came from and / or where they can be bought in the UK?

The bronze plates are bonded to a steel backplate. They are from RGM so should be readily available over there. Jim

Fast Eddie · Sep 27, 2014

comnoz said:
Fast Eddie said:

comnoz said:

I am really liking the new narrow bronze plates in my bike. I have about 200 miles on them now and no slip and nice smooth quiet engagement.
When I pass a car and make a full throttle upshift I don't have to count to 3 waiting for the clutch to hook up solid again. [but the trans may not like them so well.] Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,

Are they bronze pads bonded to a steel backplate?

It seems I was premature in my praise of my Barnet set up as it has started slipping, only under hard acceleration and above 6,000rpm, but I clearly need to do something different here.

Do you know where they came from and / or where they can be bought in the UK?

Click to expand...

The bronze plates are bonded to a steel backplate. They are from RGM so should be readily available over there. Jim

Thanks Jim, I'll be on the phone to Roger on Monday!

comnoz · Oct 16, 2014

As an update to the narrow bronze plates from RGM. With around 4000 miles on them so far I have found they are un-slippable. They do really work nice and are the first plates that have held 100% with a good dose of horsepower.

One problem I have had was after about 1000 miles the plates became sticky and the clutch would not release without gunning the throttle.

On inspection I found what looked like glue that had sweat out of the plates and was very effective at sticking them together. It washed off easily with a little gasoline on a rag and they were perfect again for another 3000 miles. Now they are starting to stick slightly again and I suspect I am going to find a little bit of "glue" showing up again. Hopefully this problem will subside after a few cleanings.

I am running these dry with a belt drive and a sealed pushrod. Jim

what are the better clutch plates to buy for 850

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