Use this method to lock primary when tightening the rotor sleeve nut to 70ft/lb or just asking for trouble?

acotrel said:
I just put it in gear and put a bar across one of the spokes near the rim, and let the chain drive it up against the swing arm as Iighten the nut. The diameter of the rear wheel minimises the load. The ratio of wheel to pole nut diameter, is pretty big.
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Where do you put your blue and white apron afterwards?

Maybe I'm just as bad - I use 3/8" soft rope (good sailing stuff) into the cylinder side I intend to work on (drive or timing) making sure its coming up towards compression TDC. Locks the crank well without loading the rest of the drivetrain.
Need to be careful of whether you're tightening or loosening something though! Get it wrong and you'll bend a valve.
 
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lazyeye6 said:
Interesting that cNw offers a pair of Belleview Washers in lieu of the OEM tab washer in their
electric starter kit. At least they did on my kit, one of the first out of the Shute. Torque down
till both are flat.
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Belleview washers? You'd have to be mental to use those!
 
I use that AN clutch lock tool in the first image, and have never had an issue. I have a better location to rest the handle against on my frame though. I've had everything off on my primary side at least 8 times. Single row AMC clutch and engine sprocket. Not a Commando, but the torque specs are the same. My intermediate shaft might as well be part of the case. It is locked in there tight and does not move in any direction. If it did move I would get or make a tool to steady it.

For the young guns or new to Norton owners out there... Putting a bar through the rear wheel and locking the spokes against the swing arm to put 80ft lbs of torque on the rotor nut and whatever torque is required for the clutch nut is really an amateur move. Although probably a commonly done old school mistake. Do not do that especially with modern skinny spokes.

All the nuts mentioned in this thread come off with an impact wrench easily. Doesn't hurt a thing if you use a little heat first. Also helps if you know what direction the threads are. I would not use an impact wrench to tighten anything though. Using an impact wrench on a Norton does not make one a barbarian. Although it could be a gateway tool to barbarianism.
 
I have to ask since I´m just about to lock everything in place, do I use the same methods discussed here if I have a primary belt drive?
 
From a 2010 post
”The book is old and 70ftlb has been shown to shear the circlip behind the clutch locating washer. 40 foot lb',s and a dab of blue loctite is optional. Put it in High gear will help with torquing.”
 
blaisestation said:
Please explain why ?
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"mental" may be a bit harsh, but as I explained earlier in this thread, they are not lock washers - may even make nuts undo more easily. Their designed purpose is to provide a precise amount axial preload. They can be stacked in series, parallel (or both) to achieve the load and deflection required.
A flat washer is likely to give better locking performance.
 
Regardless of what I have preferred to use... a conical washer is perfectly fine for this type application (mainshaft clutch hub assembly) so long as you don't over torque the fastener (flattern the washer) as this will compromise its purpose to be able to absorb shock/vibration etc.
[edit] imo
 
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Speaking of amateur moves, when I started working on Nortons but didn't have the proper tools, I would insert a piece of wooden doweling between the clutch basket and the primary chain. As I tightened the nut on the clutch center, crankshaft, etc, the doweling would be sucked into the gap, crushed to shape, and everything locked up nicely.
Good to know for roadside breakdowns: just use a small branch. :)
 
OK, time to tally it up.
70 ft lb: Bad
Tab Washer: Bad (06.3459 with 06.3447)
Tab Washer: Real Bad (06.3459 w/o 06.3447)
Belleville Washer: Bad
Locktite: Bad
Lockwasher: Bad (04.0374)

Makes me wonder if anyone's clutch has ever stayed on :D

Actually, mine have using either of the factory methods and less than 70 ft lb. No Loctite in the primary case for me. I also use the standard circlip without trouble.
 
I tightened mine using the OldBritts numbers, (35 ft.lbs.?) with red Loctite and it wasn't enough to prevent the assembly from loosening, probably hammering back and forth without me noticing for a while, and then it let go by shearing all the splines out of the clutch hub during a relatively low stress lane change on the highway. Had me baffled where my drive line broke down for a while.
 
hhh said:
I tightened mine using the OldBritts numbers, (35 ft.lbs.?) with red Loctite and it wasn't enough to prevent the assembly from loosening, probably hammering back and forth without me noticing for a while, and then it let go by shearing all the splines out of the clutch hub during a relatively low stress lane change on the highway. Had me baffled where my drive line broke down for a while.
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Generally you loose clutch operation when the mainshaft nut comes undone sightly...even while still semi connected?
 
baz said:
I reckon it'll handle the task
Also personally I'd throw that clutch center tab washer away and just use loctite
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I threw mine away after a piece broke off. It doesn't do any good to a primary belt nor the front sprocket!
 
triumph2 said:
I threw mine away after a piece broke off. It doesn't do any good to a primary belt nor the front sprocket!
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Yes, I'm a broken record. No, I'm not a metallurgist.

The clutch tab washer requires two things. One anyone should understand the first before being old enough to ride on the street and the other is less institutive.

1) Tab washers, or almost any metal, cannot be bent at a right angle, straightened, and then bent again and be expected to still be strong.
2) When the tab washer 06.3459 is used, the washer 06.3447 must be between it and the nut. Failure to do that will cause the nut to "dig into" the tab washer.

The tab washer is insurance - it's not there to keep the nut tight! If it's actually doing anything, then IMHO, you didn't do the work right to start with!
 
fiatfan said:
I have to ask since I´m just about to lock everything in place, do I use the same methods discussed here if I have a primary belt drive?
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The question would be, if you have a belt drive, can you think of another way?

But before applying pressure, get the belt at least close to its correct tension. Loose like the chain in the photo, and it is going to ride over the pulley when you put pressure on.
 
This is the type of tool I use for primary locking. Made from a bit of 1/4" x 2" flat bar, steel. See Item 1. As recommended by Harley factory workshop manuals where sprocket nuts are done up to 100 ft lb and clutch nuts 140 ft lb. Counterintuitively it does not stress the clutch or sprocket shafts or bearings as the chain is under tension and the tool under compression so major load is not transferred to the clutch or sprocket shafts. Sometimes you have to cut a notch in the middle of the plate to clear those cast lumps on the inner primary etc but it still works well.




Belleville washers is an interesting idea. Haven't seen them used there before. But makes sense for an application where there is inevitable wear on splines that allows a bit of movement and a lot of vibration. And nothing wrong with a bit of Loctite as added insurance. At worst you have to use a small cheap propane torch to break it loose next time, if you use the red stuff. Blue, not so much.
 
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