Ultra Plus 20w-50w oil

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Cheap, low spec multigrade gets noticeably thinner, noticeably sooner than expensive synthetic.

This is in my experience, which is quite limited.

And I’ve never heard of Ultra oil. So it might be fantastic stuff!
 
Triton Thrasher said:
Cheap, low spec multigrade gets noticeably thinner, noticeably sooner than expensive synthetic.

This is in my experience, which is quite limited.

And I’ve never heard of Ultra oil. So it might be fantastic stuff!
Click to expand...
Some expensive stuff does too.

I once had a low oil pressure scare in an expensive engine, so was a bit peeved as to what it might mean. Long story short, the Silkolene synthetic oil had turned to piss.

It was a track bike, so was being used hard, and it was very hot weather, but the oil was new on Friday and the oil pressure was too low to use the bike on Sunday !
 
Fast Eddie said:
Some expensive stuff does too.

I once had a low oil pressure scare in an expensive engine, so was a bit peeved as to what it might mean. Long story short, the Silkolene synthetic oil had turned to piss.

It was a track bike, so was being used hard, and it was very hot weather, but the oil was new on Friday and the oil pressure was too low to use the bike on Sunday !
Click to expand...
You really should race a bit slower.
 
In addition to Jim’s oil tech results on this site, see Alan Goldwater’s article on oil breakdown over time at “inoanorton.com” in the Norton tech section.
 
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One the whole we are blessed with the proper weather for Commando riding. But then the bike was designed here really for riding here. I go with Castrol 20-50 Classic changed at 1k. Sure Royal Purple probably the better oil but you have to balance cost and how you run your bike.
 
Onder said:
One the whole we are blessed with the proper weather for Commando riding. But then the bike was designed here really for riding here. I go with Castrol 20-50 Classic changed at 1k. Sure Royal Purple probably the better oil but you have to balance cost and how you run your bike.
Click to expand...
I have only been using RP 20/50 for 3 changes prior to that was running Penrite MC-4ST 20W-50 which is just as pricey and both are easy to get your hands on where I live...haven't noticed any extra benefit to date apart from the small easy to pour bottles R.P comes in from my supplier
 
Re oil from a Norton rider (not me) who has ridden a Norton Commando for 50 years: "Check the oil. If it's low, add some. That's pretty much all you need to do."

One of his trips was from central Mexico down to Tierra del Fuego, then reversed course to the north shore of Alaska and then back to central Mexico - approx 25,000 miles. His oil of choice was "whatever the local grocery store had on the shelf..."

His Commando is still running just fine...😉
 
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The zddp reduction is a relatively new thing.
The lower zinc isn't a problem with modern OHC auto engines but the high zinc in the 90s oil sure destroyed CATS, that's why things had to change.

My Mazda runs a seat pressure of 50 lbs. The Nortons and Vincents are about 90-105. If you add a high lift cam the Norton might see triple the over the nose pressure that a typical modern OHC four valve low lift auto engine would have. Then there's the weight of those pushrods to lift at light speed.That's the problem.

What worked just fine in 1990 doesn't work so well in 2022.
I see Castrol now offers a GTX Classic that has 1400 ppm zddp. The regular GTX has been reduced to about 800 ppm or less. I suspect that the GTX Classic 20/50 is the same oil as the Castrol XL Classic available in the UK. That oil came up very well in Jim's testing. I'm going to check with Castrol to see if it is the same. With 1400ppm zddp I'm sure it will be fine.
Hope so, I just bought 20 QTS for $97 US. Cheap as chips so I don't mind changing it when it's dirty.

VR1 has suddenly gotten very expensive and hard to find around here.
The Castrol Classic XL tested better than the VR1.


Glen
 
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worntorn said:
The zddp reduction is a relatively new thing.
The lower zinc isn't a problem with modern OHC auto engines but the high zinc in the 90s oil sure destroyed CATS, that's why things had to change.

My Mazda runs a seat pressure of 50 lbs. The Nortons and Vincents are about 90-105. If you add a high lift cam the Norton might see triple the over the nose pressure that a typical modern OHC four valve low lift auto engine would have. Then there's the weight of those pushrods to lift at light speed.That's the problem.

What worked just fine in 1990 doesn't work so well in 2022.
I see Castrol now offers a GTX Classic that has 1400 ppm zddp. The regular GTX has been reduced to about 800 ppm or less. I suspect that the GTX Classic 20/50 is the same oil as the Castrol XL Classic available in the UK. That oil came up very well in Jim's testing. I'm going to check with Castrol to see if it is the same. With 1400ppm zddp I'm sure it will be fine.
Hope so, I just bought 20 QTS for $97 US. Cheap as chips so I don't mind changing it when it's dirty.

VR1 has suddenly gotten very expensive and hard to find around here.
The Castrol Classic XL tested better than the VR1.


Glen
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Way back in the day I ran only GTX 20/50, because it was readily avaialble and at the top of the recommended oils in the
'Riders Manual'. I was a little disappointed in it's outcome with Jim's testing. Maybe it's been watered down.
This GTX Classic looks good. I really like the last statement.
*NOT FOR USE IN MODERN ENGINES WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS OR WET CLUTCH APPLICATION.
www.ebay.com

Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

On the surface V-Twin oils appear to be fine, (AKA Harley), the big issue is Harley's are roller cranks and more important, roller lifters.
The Ultra Plus is probably fine oil, the Castrol seems to be more correct, and affordable.
 
Looked just at ebay.co.uk and it is 38 pounds for one Imperial gallon delivered. Exchange is about 1.20 USD per pound and you get one more US pint if you are figuring in US gallons. So do your sums and you can see oil in the UK is dear and if you ride much changing at 1k gets even dearer. You can buy RP and change less often but that is up to you. Physics rarely offers a free ride.
 
MichaelB said:
Way back in the day I ran only GTX 20/50, because it was readily avaialble and at the top of the recommended oils in the
'Riders Manual'. I was a little disappointed in it's outcome with Jim's testing. Maybe it's been watered down.
This GTX Classic looks good. I really like the last statement.
*NOT FOR USE IN MODERN ENGINES WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS OR WET CLUTCH APPLICATION.
www.ebay.com

Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

On the surface V-Twin oils appear to be fine, (AKA Harley), the big issue is Harley's are roller cranks and more important, roller lifters.
The Ultra Plus is probably fine oil, the Castrol seems to be more correct, and affordable.
Click to expand...

MichaelB said:
Way back in the day I ran only GTX 20/50, because it was readily avaialble and at the top of the recommended oils in the
'Riders Manual'. I was a little disappointed in it's outcome with Jim's testing. Maybe it's been watered down.
This GTX Classic looks good. I really like the last statement.
*NOT FOR USE IN MODERN ENGINES WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS OR WET CLUTCH APPLICATION.
www.ebay.com

Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Castrol GTX Classic 20W-50 Conventional Motor Oil, 5 Quarts, Single NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

On the surface V-Twin oils appear to be fine, (AKA Harley), the big issue is Harley's are roller cranks and more important, roller lifters.
The Ultra Plus is probably fine oil, the Castrol seems to be more correct, and affordable.
Click to expand...
The standard GTX 20/50 that Jim tested did really well for load capacity at 257lbs. By comparison VR1 was only 205 lbs and many oils were below 150.
The downside to the GTX was high heat from friction, that was over 7.
The UK Castrol Classic XL had an even higher load capacity at over 300 plus a nice low heat from friction at 1.94.

The newly available US Castrol Classic lists almost identical product data to the UK Classic XL.
I'm going to call it the same oil and use it without benefit of Jim's testing.
If he ever fires the tester up again it would be a good one to test.
In any case, it's nice that Castrol has recognized that old engines, such as the Commando, do well with this older type of oil. It's also great that it can be had in 5 qt jugs for under $25 at Walmart.

Glen
 
Though Jim's testing was great and useful, I believe he stated his reasons for doing was bc he had a cam failure on a hopped up engine. He wanted to find an oil better for this higher stressed engine. I do believe just about any modern oil will do fine in a stock commando on the road. Extra peace of mind can be attained by following Jim's studies.

There are zddp additives for adding to non-zinc oils. There is also a Lucas brand classic " Hotrod" oil available in Canada/USA with high zinc and it is about $45/5L here in Vancouver BC.
Got some to use in my classic mini and may try in the Norton one day once my VR1 stock is consumed.
 
Tornado said:
Though Jim's testing was great and useful, I believe he stated his reasons for doing was bc he had a cam failure on a hopped up engine. He wanted to find an oil better for this higher stressed engine. I do believe just about any modern oil will do fine in a stock commando on the road.
Click to expand...

There is a good sized listing of oils he tested that are labelled "Oil that might cause excessive wear in a Commando engine."
I would definitely avoid using any of those.
The expensive Royal Purple EXP that was in his bike for the cam failure is on this list.

Also, one has to be careful when adding Zddp. I don't think we have adequate knowledge to do that. For sure I don't, others might.
One of the very expensive Redline oils that also failed the test boasted 2200 ppm zddp.
It seems there is an optimum level for zddp and it is somewhere in that 1100 to 1400 ppm range.
Very high zddp can also damage Conrod bearings.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
He does not believe that any modern oil will be fine for a stock Commando.
There is a good sized listing of oils he tested that are labelled "Oil that might cause excessive wear in a Commando engine."
I would definitely avoid using any of those.
The expensive Royal Purple EXP that was in his bike for the cam failure is on this list.

Also, one has to be careful when adding Zddp. I don't think we have adequate knowledge to do that. For sure I don't, others might.
One of the very expensive Redline oils that also failed the test boasted 2200 ppm zddp.
It seems there is an optimum level for zddp and it is somewhere in that 1100 to 1400 ppm range.
Very high zddp can also damage Conrod bearings.

Glen
Click to expand...
But we do have real world reports of bikes lasting 40+ yrs running whatever oils were at hand. So there is best possible vs perfectly adequate.
 
Yes but most any oil was OK until very recently, so those owners were unwittingly using the right oil. High ZDDP was standard issue in oil.
It's not today. ZDDP levels are coming down all the time.
You cannot go by what worked fine in the 80s 90s as it has all changed.
In the 80s about any fuel was ok too.
Now you can fill her up with E10, let it sit and destroy the carbs.
So we have to adjust to these new realities or do frequent unplanned rebuilding.

Glen
 
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Found this on the Lucas Oil website regarding zinc content on their products. The 20w50 HotRod oil is what I plan to use in my classic mini and potentially my Commando:

Ultra Plus 20w-50w oil


 
Nice to have that information. It can be nearly impossible to find for some oils.

Glen
 
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