UK Regisration Plates - Time to sack the DVLA idiots

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Having got picked up at my last MOT on the MK3 in July, I decided to check the regs prior to taking my split single Puch to the 'friendly' MOT station - Things have changed from the 01 April 2016 it seems, DVLA INF104 leaflet explains, but it seems to have missed a trick.

Post 2001 registrations are to have characters different size from car size lettering - 64mm High, 44mm wide, with a 10mm stroke - ideal and makes sense.

Then the idiots lost the plot it seems - 1973 - 2001, character height for this period 89mm high, 64mm wide and 16mm strke - forget Euro4 have an air brake instead - most will probably go for the above size and font which is allowed.

Pre 1973 sizes a little better - 79mm high, 57 wide and with a 14mm stroke.

Bikes manufactured or registered upto 1976 can now definitely use the white / silver / grey letters on black background providing they have taxed as historic vehicles and comply with the older style plates.

Seems strange to have a different size for the modern current plate but not for the pre 2001 plates, just goes to show what a bunch of chumps they are. How did they not spot that if the current sizes need to be smaller than that woudl apply to the early bikes. Couple in the sizes with the required spacing and borders, these things are going to be large.

Sadly, some of you will have bought some of these plates recently, or worse still may have the originals, which may not have the correct size characters on them - be prepared for the miserly MOT tester on this one, if fails you he could correct as number plate specs are now included in your MOT. The days of 'Yes, it can be read'' maybe over.
 
That's good, but you're lucky if they are like flash, they are intelligent but slow, ours are just slow.
 
If you buy the numberplate ftom the MOT station they may be too embarrassed to fail it ;)
 
Madnorton said:
Post 2001 registrations are to have characters different size from car size lettering - 64mm High, 44mm wide, with a 10mm stroke - ideal and makes sense.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... plates.pdf
64/44/10mm was the normal size for motorcycles before 1/Sept./2001. The changes regarding motorcycle (and tricycle) plates from that date are font style of replacement plates and:

Motorcycles registered from 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the back of the vehicle. Motorcycles registered before 1 September 2001 can display a number plate at the front, but do not have to.



Madnorton said:
Then the idiots lost the plot it seems - 1973 - 2001, character height for this period 89mm high, 64mm wide and 16mm strke

That's for cars, as:

There are separate rules for motorcycles and tricycles.

Characters must be 64mm tall
Characters (except the number 1 or letter I) must be
44mm wide
The character stroke (the thickness of the black print)
must be 10mm
The space between characters must be 10mm
The space between the age identifier and the random
letters must be 30mm
The margins at the top, bottom and side of the plate
must be at least 11mm
Vertical space between the age identifier and the
random numbers must be 13mm




Madnorton said:
Pre 1973 sizes a little better - 79mm high, 57 wide and with a 14mm stroke.

Once again, 79/57/14mm applies to car plates. Edit: now pre-76 optional 'historic'.

http://www.jepsonclassicplates.com/car_ ... lates.html
3 1/8" = 79mm

Motorcycles
http://www.jepsonclassicplates.com/moto ... lates.html
2 1/2" = 64mm




Madnorton said:
Seems strange to have a different size for the modern current plate but not for the pre 2001 plates,

just goes to show what a bunch of chumps they are. How did they not spot that if the current sizes need to be smaller than that woudl apply to the early bikes. Couple in the sizes with the required spacing and borders, these things are going to be large.

But the sizes haven't changed for motorcycles so I'm not sure what it is you are getting at?


Madnorton said:
Sadly, some of you will have bought some of these plates recently, or worse still may have the originals, which may not have the correct size characters on them - be prepared for the miserly MOT tester on this one, if fails you he could correct as number plate specs are now included in your MOT. The days of 'Yes, it can be read'' maybe over.

Plate regs. have been included in the car/bike MoT manuals for years.

THE MOT INSPECTION MANUAL
MOTOR BICYCLE AND SIDE CAR TESTING
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... es-1-2.pdf

Size of Characters
Testers are not required to physically measure the characters or their spacing
and the following information is provided for guidance only. Registration plates should only be rejected for character dimensions or spacing if they are clearly incorrect.
Relevant Dimension
Size
Character height 64mm
Character width (except for the figure 1 or letter I) 44mm
Stroke width 10mm
Space between two characters in group 10mm
Vertical space between groups 13mm
Horizontal space between groups 30mm
Margins (minimum) 11mm
 
The reason I looked online was that my copy from the 90's of the HMSO MOT regs had nothing at all, so not much use. The latest 'inf104' from 2016 though giving the latest dimensions for bike plates, does not say that this dimension is to be used for all motorcycle plates, pre '73.

Do like the pressed steel plates though, might just have to order a couple for the Puch and MK3.
 
I now have a reply from DVLA - the answer 'they don't know either' and advised to contact the British Standards Institute, as I said - sack the lot of them!!
 
One has to be careful with things like this...

Cause too much of a stir and it could easily end up with someone say "this chap is right, it is horridly complex. Lets simplify it and just rule that ALL vehicles, however old, MUST use the current new vehicle standard"!

This time, their cock up and incompetence is to our advantage...
 
Madnorton said:
I now have a reply from DVLA - the answer 'they don't know either' and advised to contact the British Standards Institute,

However, I don't think plates were produced 'to British Standard' before reflectives (BS AU 145) were introduced.


Madnorton said:
as I said - sack the lot of them!!

No, we would only end up with more of the same...or worse.

The pre-reflective plate character sizes, margins and layout are given in: The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 1971, S.I. 1971/450, Schedule 2, Parts I & II, as: 3 1/2"(89mm) x 2 1/2" characters (for cars etc.) and 2 1/2"(64mm) x 1 3/4" for 'bicycles', etc. (and 1 3/4" for front plates which no longer apply).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1971 ... 450_en.pdf


Edit:
Also:
The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001 ... 561_en.pdf
 
Hi,

Sounds like a lot of ballyhoo over some dude in your MOT test center giving your number plate the old one finger digit.

I had some digit issues myself over wrong numbers on my V5 and also numbers wrong on my new MOT and the bloke at the DVLA could not have been more professional and accommodating and sorted my V5 out tout suite.

So it must be your "Donald duck" if it goes good or bad when dealing with them.

Happy Xmas to all at the DVLA, idiots included!
 
auldblue said:
Sounds like a lot of ballyhoo over some dude in your MOT test center giving your number plate the old one finger digit.


I think some of Madnorton's previous photos may well shed some light on the situation as the number plate in the photos taken around the time he bought his Mk3 it seems to have a standard M/C size reflective plate but in later photos, it definitely looks a smaller plate. :wink:

Maybe he washed it, and it shrunk? :mrgreen:
 
The size of the plate wasn't questioned, just the size of the characters. Despite being pulled over several times, speeding twice, drink driving once - cleared at the roadside by breathalyzer, loud pipes 'these pipes are illegal' Err - check the number plate, and riding with a bike that had an italic plate fitted, none of the boys in blue even questioned it!!

But trawling the SI's it seems that LAB's only goldmine of info 1971 No 450 has been revoked wholly by 2002 No 2742 and the only guidance we have is in 2001 No. 561 - which sadly still refers to the revoked SI. I suppose no one really cared about pre '73 plates back in 2001 assuming they can also be made in the new font in pressed construction.

So no matter which way I skin the cat, I need to change the plate as it seems that the old (black and white) plates are still valid and can be used upto 1976 providing the vehicle is registered as Historic (DVLA INF104 dated 2016) but the font has to be the post 2001 (modern) font at 64mm for motorcycles, as it seems that there is no approved font for pre '73, and the only items carried over are the construction for black and white plates and the character height.

I'll front up with the existing plate on the Puch and see what happens, and then with the MK3 project on b&w plate.

Thanks to LAB for the link to the SI's - what a useful site that is.
 
Madnorton said:
The size of the plate wasn't questioned, just the size of the characters.

Where the plate is smaller it usually follows that the characters are also smaller which was what I meant. :wink:


Madnorton said:
Despite being pulled over several times, speeding twice, drink driving once - cleared at the roadside by breathalyzer, loud pipes 'these pipes are illegal' Err - check the number plate, and riding with a bike that had an italic plate fitted, none of the boys in blue even questioned it!!

You actually have (traffic?) police where you live! :shock:
 
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