Two New Problems

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Tornado

Tornado

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After finally getting some serious miles on my MK2 850 this season, gave her an oil and filter change lastnight. While filling the oil tank, discovered the upper rear bracket had fractured at the tack welds. Did not appear to have any oil leaking so likely no perforation into tank. Of course not seen until after filling new oil. Will likely try some epoxy to hold it together until I can have it welded.

Took it out for a short ride this morning and about ten minutes out, had clouds of smoke rising while at a stop light. Glancing down lots of oil spewing down onto exhaust rose nut and all down right side of bike. Turned out to be the nylon banjo rocker feed line had popped nearly fully off the spigot. Big mess. Managed to trim the widened end of nylon line and wiggle on un-widened fresh end with fair amount of force. Got me home.
These nylons were new about 11k miles ago. Anyone know of a crimp type fitting for these? What about an adhesive? Nylon is difficult for adhesives to bond with.
Would be best if spigots have barb or even an outside thread to twist line onto.
 
I would not bother with epoxy for the bracket. It will only make it more difficult to clean when you weld it. I would try to brace the tank with pieces of stiff foam and wire as a temporary fix. If you don't secure it you will have more problems with the bottom "spigot" mount. It will likely crack the bottom of the tank from the movement and vibration.

As for the rocker feed line, if your current line does not have barbs on the banjo fittings, it is not a genuine Norton part. The line does get brittle and break after several years. Truck air brake line can be used to make new lines from original banjos, but if yours have no barbs, don't bother. Either get an OEM type from Andover or the best solution is a braided stainless line from Venhill, Goodridge, or other suppliers. Be aware that the braided stainless will abrade the aluminum castings if they are not coated. My fix is to cover them with clear heat shrink tubing.
 
My rear oil tank bracket broke about 10 years ago, cut a wedge of rubber out of a 1" thick pad and wedged it down the rear, zip tied the filler neck to the frame. Been like that ever since, I see no need to pull the tank to weld it at this point, but my bottom mount was removed previously à la CNW mod
 
Black, truck, nylon airline is long lived, inexpensive and unobtrusive. Years ago at the Norton shop we would use the nylon line with original banjos, warm the line with a heat gun or hair dryer, push them on the barbs and for good measure take a couple of wraps of lock wire, cinch it down with the lockwire pliers and call it good. Never had a comeback and mine done that way many years ago is still intact.
 
My nylon is in fact air brake line. My understanding was the non barbed banjos were original stock. Is that not correct? If barb are now available from AN then i'll get some.

How do the stainless braided hoses connect, stock banjo or do they come with their own type?
 
Heat and a touch of hair spray will let you wiggle on most any line. The hair spray sets up dry and sticky but you're counting on a tight fit for success so that's your goal here.
 
Jdub said:
Heat and a touch of hair spray will let you wiggle on most any line. The hair spray sets up dry and sticky but you're counting on a tight fit for success so that's your goal here.
Click to expand...
When I fitted the nylon air hose I used a brake line flaring clamp to hold tightly to the hose and twisted in the banjo spigot, dry. It did take quite bit of effort so a lot of friction and good fit. Guess they can loosen or perhaps the popped one was 'worked' recently causing it to free up.
 
Tornado said:
After finally getting some serious miles on my MK2 850 this season, gave her an oil and filter change lastnight. While filling the oil tank, discovered the upper rear bracket had fractured at the tack welds. Did not appear to have any oil leaking so likely no perforation into tank. Of course not seen until after filling new oil. Will likely try some epoxy to hold it together until I can have it welded.
Click to expand...
See oil tank service here: https://coloradonortonworks.net/cnw-specialized-modifications

Good thing to do over the winter. I've had several done and have three to ship now. They come back clean, power coated and the rear mount is doubled and welded.

In the meantime, just pack some foam around it - it won't go anywhere as long as you have the side cover on.
 
Like Greg says, Matt does and excellent tank refurb / modification service. The finnished tank does away with the bottom mount, removing a source of stress.

It comes back thoroughly cleaned inside, painted outside, with the chain oil feed blanked off.

A very worthwhile winter mod.

Braided stainless rocker feeds are the safest option IMO.
 
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Yep go braided
But be careful of the cross over pipe routing
Or do the cross drilling on the rocker spindles
 
Just my two penn'orth:

Surely anything deformed by heat from a hairdryer will be at risk from the heat generated by a running engine??

As mentioned above, the upper oil tank mounts usually suffer if the bottom lacks decent support. When mine fractured I made a composite rubber/steel washer of a width that kept the weight off the top bobbins.
 
When that line goes so does the pressure to the big ends, so braided is best.

As long as the tank had oil in it then its unlikely the big ends have suffered, the spinning crank will be creating centripetal forces on the oil so the big ends will get oil and at a lower pressure. On a motorway/freeway the risk of running out of oil before noticing is a lot higher than a local run with stops.
 
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I made my own stainless braided oil lines, its easy enough - Goodridge have a wide range of parts; 600-3 size hose and fittings. Last time I bought any of those items, I went to Demon Tweaks (in the UK). The braided hose isn't very flexible, and will go where it wants to go... I did run the hose from the timing chest up between the inlet manifolds which made for a 'nice' curve over to the RH side of the cylinder head, but put a short length of rubber oil hose over the braided hose where it ran between the inlets. The stainless braid is quite soft, and will wear through if it is in contact with other parts of the engine.
 
kommando said:
When that line goes so does the pressure to the big ends, so braided is best.

As long as the tank had oil in it then its unlikely the big ends have suffered, the spinning crank will be creating centripetal forces on the oil so the big ends will get oil and at a lower pressure. On a motorway/freeway the risk of running out of oil before noticing is a lot higher than a local run with stops.
Click to expand...
I can say the nylon did not fully pop off the banjo, had maybe 1/4" still connected. But there was oil squirting out from under it. So at least some back pressure still in the feed to crank. I do not recall if I looked at my pressure guage while I was manouvering off the roadway into an alleyway.
 
norton73 said:
The SS lines come with the all the fittings installed.
Click to expand...
Thx for clarifying that.

My other question was around the original banjos and if non barbed were OEM. I've been on AN checking the MK2 parts but have not found the head rocker feed banjos on any diagram.

Doing a general search for oil pipe banjo shows a range on non barbed and barbed types. Unclear which are for rocker feeds and which for other locations, bikes.
 
Tornado said:
Thx for clarifying that.

My other question was around the original banjos and if non barbed were OEM. I've been on AN checking the MK2 parts but have not found the head rocker feed banjos on any diagram.

Doing a general search for oil pipe banjo shows a range on non barbed and barbed types. Unclear which are for rocker feeds and which for other locations, bikes.
Click to expand...
Are the non barbed banjos the early solder on type?
 
I found these on AN via general "Banjo" search:

Two New Problems


andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton - OIL PIPE BANJO (DOUBLE) 06.5561 - 06.5561/3

OIL PIPE BANJO (DOUBLE) 06.5561
andover-norton.co.uk


A single barb also found. Does not show what bike these are for nor any dimensions.
 
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