TVS Norton's U.S. Dealer / Warranty

Voodooo said:
No Harley dealership is going to sell something other than Harley’s. Besides, Harley dealers don’t have room because of all the gaudy clothing they sell takes up 1/2 the show room.
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The worm has turned against HD for all the fluff.

...at least in the US, at Sturgis...
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
Yes, my local dealer has several new 961s for sale, and can order a V4 if you want one. They also have demo bikes to test ride. I bought my bike in late May, the salesman said I was their 34th Norton sold, since they become a dealer in late 2023. Based on their FB page they've sold a few more since.
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Does your dealer have a web site, and if so, what is it?
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
Yes, here https://www.oakmeremotorgroup.co.uk/
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OK, they have a few.

Translate the prices to USD and they are about 2x the price of an equivalent Triumph Classic so I doubt that a Triumph dealer in the US would carry them.

There is a great deal of startup cost. The local Triumph dealer opened a few years ago and had a showroom full of bikes, a fully stocked parts dept. and a service department ready to go at the grand opening. The owner and partners mortgaged everything they had to get going in a small warehouse facility, now they have a very large showroom with six brands. Today they have 195 bikes for sell of which 149 are new. None of the equivalent bikes of the six brands cost anywhere near as much as a 961. Just like with cars, dealers don't make much on selling the bikes, but the service, parts, and accessories do make a lot of money.

Norton is being smart to grow from home, IMHO. Then, IMHO, they need to get enough market share and volume to get the price down to something reasonable, especially for younger riders. The new Triumph 400 is likely to outsell the Rocket 3 by a LOT, especially in congested areas. Even though I could easily afford a 961, I definitely would not pay that much for the name!

Having lots of dealers in a place as small as England and having very few bikes to service is a good way for those dealers to fail unless they make their money elsewhere.
 
With ref to price, the dealer gives a £2024 contribution, while also giving an extra £1500 on any PX, even bikes worth £50. That brings the price down to £13500, not so far from a Triumph T120 here.. which is priced from £11,999. The Norton MD has stated that the current factory has an annual capacity of 5000 to 7000 bikes, that won't be enough to supply worldwide sales, turn a decent profit, and justify the huge front end investment TVS has made. In time I expect capacity to increase (assuming the new bikes sell well), while no doubt Norton's Triumph 400 competitor will be built by TVS in India, just like the Triumph.

For better or worse, here in the UK, Norton seem to want their dealers to be high end car dealers, rather than existing bike dealers.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
With ref to price, the dealer gives a £2024 contribution, while also giving an extra £1500 on any PX, even bikes worth £50. That brings the price down to £13500, not so far from a Triumph T120 here.. which is priced from £11,999. The Norton MD has stated that the current factory has an annual capacity of 5000 to 7000 bikes, that won't be enough to supply worldwide sales, turn a decent profit, and justify the huge front end investment TVS has made. In time I expect capacity to increase (assuming the new bikes sell well), while no doubt Norton's Triumph 400 competitor will be built by TVS in India, just like the Triumph.

For better or worse, here in the UK, Norton seem to want their dealers to be high end car dealers, rather than existing bike dealers.
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Wow! A 2024 T120 here is 1200cc and $13695 before incentives and haggling (£10,648) before incentives. The link you gave shows one new (whatever that means) at £17,695 ($22,759). Can't tell if that is the price before or after incentives. Of course, A T120 and 961 are not equivalent. A T100 (900cc) and 961 are closer and the T100 is $10,995 before incentives and haggling which is about 1/2 of a 961 price. The 961 is higher HP but as far as I can tell no where near as sophitcated.

None of that really matters. Us old British fans have are favorites as it should be. But I'm talking about younger people. It's like in the seventies when US Triumph dealers had 750 Bonnevilles and 750 Tridents in the showroom. The Tridents were a PITA to sell because they cost more and at first didn't even look like a proper Triumphs. Triumph spent a lot of money providing "beautification kits" so dealers could a least make them look like proper Triumphs and have a chance at selling them!
 
marshg246 said:
Wow! A 2024 T120 here is 1200cc and $13695 before incentives and haggling (£10,648) before incentives. The link you gave shows one new (whatever that means) at £17,695 ($22,759). Can't tell if that is the price before or after incentives. Of course, A T120 and 961 are not equivalent. A T100 (900cc) and 961 are closer and the T100 is $10,995 before incentives and haggling which is about 1/2 of a 961 price. The 961 is higher HP but as far as I can tell no where near as sophitcated.

None of that really matters. Us old British fans have are favorites as it should be. But I'm talking about younger people. It's like in the seventies when US Triumph dealers had 750 Bonnevilles and 750 Tridents in the showroom. The Tridents were a PITA to sell because they cost more and at first didn't even look like a proper Triumphs. Triumph spent a lot of money providing "beautification kits" so dealers could a least make them look like proper Triumphs and have a chance at selling them!
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New means new, on the road, we don't have all those local taxes you have in the US. The 961 has a higher spec than the T100, less electronics of course, but much better suspension and brakes, and more power. BTW the ltd edition T120 'Elvis' is priced at £14,495 on Triumphs website.. that's more than you can buy a new 961 here, the £17K price is before the dealer 'contribution' etc. I paid £15K in June this year which included a free service. I preferred the 961 over the T120 / BMW R Nine T / Z900RS all of which I tested. If I like the spec and looks of the new water cooled Commando, I may well buy one next year. It'll no doubt be very different from the 961, but the 961 is a keeper.
 
marshg246 said:
OK, they have a few.

Translate the prices to USD and they are about 2x the price of an equivalent Triumph Classic so I doubt that a Triumph dealer in the US would carry them.

There is a great deal of startup cost. The local Triumph dealer opened a few years ago and had a showroom full of bikes, a fully stocked parts dept. and a service department ready to go at the grand opening. The owner and partners mortgaged everything they had to get going in a small warehouse facility, now they have a very large showroom with six brands. Today they have 195 bikes for sell of which 149 are new. None of the equivalent bikes of the six brands cost anywhere near as much as a 961. Just like with cars, dealers don't make much on selling the bikes, but the service, parts, and accessories do make a lot of money.

Norton is being smart to grow from home, IMHO. Then, IMHO, they need to get enough market share and volume to get the price down to something reasonable, especially for younger riders. The new Triumph 400 is likely to outsell the Rocket 3 by a LOT, especially in congested areas. Even though I could easily afford a 961, I definitely would not pay that much for the name!

Having lots of dealers in a place as small as England and having very few bikes to service is a good way for those dealers to fail unless they make their money elsewhere.
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My two local triumph dealers are…
Triumph Detroit, which they sell triumph, Mv agusta and zero.

My other local triumph dealer….
Rivers edge in maumee Ohio, they sell triumph, Ducati and Moto Morini. They sell $60k Ducatis to $4500 triumph 400.

I’m not seeing your point on a dealer not selling a Norton and a more expensive or cheaper brand model?

Nobody in the market that can afford a rocket 3 is going to consider a lame duck triumph 400. I don’t think price always matters when it comes to something like a luxury item like a bike. Nobody needs a motorcycle, it’s a want, not a need.
They can only do one thing. Poorly transport 1-2 people in generally shot distances very poorly.
Even if you have saddle bags or even a trailer on back, it’s not like you can pack a lot of stuff.

Do you think a person who’s interested in buying a Norton, knowing it’s going to cost more than a cheaper model really cares? I mean that’s like saying someone who is interested in buying a Porsche isn’t going to go look at a Kia.
 
Voodooo said:
My two local triumph dealers are…
Triumph Detroit, which they sell triumph, Mv agusta and zero.

My other local triumph dealer….
Rivers edge in maumee Ohio, they sell triumph, Ducati and Moto Morini. They sell $60k Ducatis to $4500 triumph 400.

I’m not seeing your point on a dealer not selling a Norton and a more expensive or cheaper brand model?

Nobody in the market that can afford a rocket 3 is going to consider a lame duck triumph 400. I don’t think price always matters when it comes to something like a luxury item like a bike. Nobody needs a motorcycle, it’s a want, not a need.
They can only do one thing. Poorly transport 1-2 people in generally shot distances very poorly.
Even if you have saddle bags or even a trailer on back, it’s not like you can pack a lot of stuff.

Do you think a person who’s interested in buying a Norton, knowing it’s going to cost more than a cheaper model really cares? I mean that’s like saying someone who is interested in buying a Porsche isn’t going to go look at a Kia.
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You missed the whole point!
 
marshg246 said:
Wow! A 2024 T120 here is 1200cc and $13695 before incentives and haggling (£10,648) before incentives. The link you gave shows one new (whatever that means) at £17,695 ($22,759). Can't tell if that is the price before or after incentives. Of course, A T120 and 961 are not equivalent. A T100 (900cc) and 961 are closer and the T100 is $10,995 before incentives and haggling which is about 1/2 of a 961 price. The 961 is higher HP but as far as I can tell no where near as sophitcated.

None of that really matters. Us old British fans have are favorites as it should be. But I'm talking about younger people. It's like in the seventies when US Triumph dealers had 750 Bonnevilles and 750 Tridents in the showroom. The Tridents were a PITA to sell because they cost more and at first didn't even look like a proper Triumphs. Triumph spent a lot of money providing "beautification kits" so dealers could a least make them look like proper Triumphs and have a chance at selling them!
Click to expand...
Your triumph dealer is about $1000 over my local dealer.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
New means new, on the road, we don't have all those local taxes you have in the US. The 961 has a higher spec than the T100, less electronics of course, but much better suspension and brakes, and more power. BTW the ltd edition T120 'Elvis' is priced at £14,495 on Triumphs website.. that's more than you can buy a new 961 here, the £17K price is before the dealer 'contribution' etc. I paid £15K in June this year which included a free service. I preferred the 961 over the T120 / BMW R Nine T / Z900RS all of which I tested. If I like the spec and looks of the new water cooled Commando, I may well buy one next year. It'll no doubt be very different from the 961, but the 961 is a keeper.
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local taxes? What do we have that you don’t?
 
Voodooo said:
Your triumph dealer is about $1000 over my local dealer.
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Dealers have many ways of stating prices and incentives and Triumph has lots of models. Only a fool would pay MSRP for a car or bike when there was plenty of stock!

When I first visited them at their grand opening, I rode there on a Trident. I was offered $1000 to simply take a test ride on a Rocket 3 once I expressed interest in one! I declined because although I like the Rocket 3, there is simply no use for it here for me. If I had room, I would probably buy a T100 or T120 just to have - they cost small money when incentives and haggling are factored in. If I ever get rid of all the customer bikes and project bikes, I may do that.

I did want to buy a new Norton when they came out, but I wasn't about to drive most of a day just to talk to a dealer with nothing to show me!
 
marshg246 said:
Dealers have many ways of stating prices and incentives and Triumph has lots of models. Only a fool would pay MSRP for a car or bike when there was plenty of stock!

When I first visited them at their grand opening, I rode there on a Trident. I was offered $1000 to simply take a test ride on a Rocket 3 once I expressed interest in one! I declined because although I like the Rocket 3, there is simply no use for it here for me. If I had room, I would probably buy a T100 or T120 just to have - they cost small money when incentives and haggling are factored in. If I ever get rid of all the customer bikes and project bikes, I may do that.

I did want to buy a new Norton when they came out, but I wasn't about to drive most of a day just to talk to a dealer with nothing to show me!
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Good luck getting a new Norton for less than MSRP. Not gonna happen.
 
Bevelheadmhr said:
New means new, on the road, we don't have all those local taxes you have in the US. The 961 has a higher spec than the T100, less electronics of course, but much better suspension and brakes, and more power. BTW the ltd edition T120 'Elvis' is priced at £14,495 on Triumphs website.. that's more than you can buy a new 961 here, the £17K price is before the dealer 'contribution' etc. I paid £15K in June this year which included a free service. I preferred the 961 over the T120 / BMW R Nine T / Z900RS all of which I tested. If I like the spec and looks of the new water cooled Commando, I may well buy one next year. It'll no doubt be very different from the 961, but the 961 is a keeper.
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Yes, new means new. However, I could have quoted prices for new 2023 Triumphs which are much lower, but I quoted new 2024 Triumphs. I could make no sense of how old the new Nortons I saw were hence my comment. If they are recently built and not leftovers, that's good but it wasn't stated that I saw.

Yes, the Elvis edition and Final Edition Thruxton are more expensive, but I was comparing to a stock 961, not some special.

I have not tested any new Norton. I'm happy for you to have what you prefer and definitely not disparaging your choice!

My whole point was related to the talk of Norton selling in the US and I think they are doing the right thing growing at home. To make an actual impact here they probably need at least 150 dealers - we have 50 states and some a VERY big. And, our friends to the North would need many dealers as well.
 
Voodooo said:
Good luck getting a new Norton for less than MSRP. Not gonna happen.
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Of course not! Way too few available. When you have a niche product you can get your price if you wait for a buyer. That's how I can sell rebuilt Commandos for more than new Triumphs and how cNw could sell theirs for more than almost any bike and still decided to stop building them.

I have no idea about the UK, but vehicles sitting in a showroom here get more expensive for the dealer every day in most states. The profit does not come from the vehicle sale - their main desire is to cover the cost of the sale (including staff), turn over inventory, and provide service, especially warranty service. Most car dealers only really want to cover the cost of their sales person's commission - they are happy to get more but will certainly sell for much less. Of course a Corvette can bring a premium over sticker as can the VERY expensive cars. My 2011 loaded and ordered Mercedes had a sticker just over $90k and I wrote a check for $70k including extended warranty and extended maintenance. The dealer would have loved the extra $20k but there was no way I was paying it. Motorcycle dealers try to get MSRP but I can't imagine anyone paying it for mainstream bikes.
 
Voodooo said:
local taxes? What do we have that you don’t?
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Don't you have state taxes which are different across the US, as well as registration fees, expensive delivery charges etc, on top of the recommended price for a bike? I see a lot of complaints from US riders on these 'rip off' charges. In the UK the RRP is the price you pay, including all taxes etc. It's rare to pay more than that, perhaps for expensive Ferraris etc. The RRP is the top price, customers would usually pay less with discounts, dealer 'contributions' etc.
 

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