Three different types of rear hub

Ron L said:
And here are the ribbed hubs Piero has. They appear to be standard "interim" hubs as found on Ranger 750. I have included a photo of my Ranger and an early AMC hub (Matchless G3?) which is wider and has more ribs.
Click to expand...

Hi Ron, the interim hub (p/n 029201) turns on ball bearings. i find it odd that the factory would fit anything but a rear hub turning on roller bearings to a competition machine. The width of the hub is probably different to the competition hub (p/n 023068) as well. Do you know from a parts list that your wheel/hub was the original fitment? Or just a PO wanting to eliminate the lock-up problem associated with the comp hub design?

-Knut
 
Knut, I'm not completely clear on what you are asking, but both the skimmed and ribbed (Ranger 750) hubs found on P11's run on ball bearings, not the roller bearings. The wider hub was acquired as a bare hub at a swap meet and is of unknown origin. Neither of my P11's were purchased new so it is feasible that the hubs have been changed, but between myself and my good friend we have at least 6-8 sets of wheels and all the hubs are the same.
 
Ron L said:
Knut, I'm not completely clear on what you are asking, but both the skimmed and ribbed (Ranger 750) hubs found on P11's run on ball bearings, not the roller bearings.
Click to expand...

This would be true for the front wheel only, not for the rear wheel, and my previous post was about the rear wheel. I am almost certain that even the Ranger model had tapered roller bearings in the rear hub (the competion model hub, p/n 023068). Btw, the '64 on G80CS had the same wheels front and rear as the P11 series (apart from the skimming). This hub is NOT the "interim hub", which was quite different.
 
Thanks for the clarification. So the front wheels are considered "interim" while the rear is "competition"? I've never owned Matchless/AJS bikes other than Norton hybrids. Still learning.
 
Hi.
A question please.
About flanged rear hub (interim or competition) the 1963 Matchless had both hubs front and rear with 5 ribs.
Why i dont see any Ranger with the 5 ribs rear hub but only 7 ribs?
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Hi.
A question please.
About flanged rear hub (interim or competition) the 1963 Matchless had both hubs front and rear with 5 ribs.
Why i dont see any Ranger with the 5 ribs rear hub but only 7 ribs?
Piero
Click to expand...

If you are looking at a 1963 roadster (e.g., a G15 Mk1), that bike had a hub with 5 ribs.
Have you seen a genuine 1963 G80CS having a rear hub with only 5 ribs? I doubt you have.

1962 G80CST:
https://www.google.com/search?q=196...h=914#imgrc=9_pLlYeBL98VMM:&spf=1522958396280

1968 G80CS:
https://www.google.com/search?q=196...h=914#imgrc=fbpqW97POgvyJM:&spf=1522958396280

Regards,

Knut
 
mdt-son said:
If you are looking at a 1963 roadster (e.g., a G15 Mk1), that bike had a hub with 5 ribs.
Have you seen a genuine 1963 G80CS having a rear hub with only 5 ribs? I doubt you have.

1962 G80CST:
https://www.google.com/search?q=196...h=914#imgrc=9_pLlYeBL98VMM:&spf=1522958396280

1968 G80CS:
https://www.google.com/search?q=196...h=914#imgrc=fbpqW97POgvyJM:&spf=1522958396280

Regards,

Knut
Click to expand...
Hi.
1963 3GL had five ribs rear hub.
In any case, you mean that P11 has the eight ribs only.
Piero
 
Yes Piero, depending on how you count the ribs there are 7 or 8 ribs on the non-skimmed rear hub, just as the contemporary G80CS.

The '63 G3L was/is a roadster.

Cheers,

Knut
 
Well,
i dont have rear five ribs hub
To day i have had a ride with my P11.
Keep pictures.
If someone wants let me have the mail.
Ciao
Piero
 
Three different types of rear hub

The one on the floor is from '54, only used that year. It's the only year with the ribs sitting even with the side, not standing proud. I've got one that came with my Ranger, if anyone is working on a '54 Matchless and needs one.

B
 
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Ron L said:
And the third set of Piero's hubs. These appear to be standard skimmed "interim" hubs as found on P11 and P11A.
Piero's skimmed 1

Piero's skimmed 1

  • Media owner Ron L
  • Date added
Piero's skimmed 2

Piero's skimmed 2

  • Media owner Ron L
  • Date added
Piero's skimmed 3

Piero's skimmed 3

  • Media owner Ron L
  • Date added
Piero's skimmed 4

Piero's skimmed 4

  • Media owner Ron L
  • Date added
Click to expand...

I am in the process of removing the brake drum and cover on the speedo drive side off the rear hub of my P11

The top photo in Ron L's post shows the bearing adjuster closest the camera with the two cutouts that fit into the speedo drive

The thinner lock ring on the bearing adjuster thread with four "square" cut outs at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock sits on the
bearing adjuster thread up against the hub cover. And presumably holds the cover in place?

I believe the lock ring has a left hand thread ?

I believe I neeed to loosen the lock ring to unscrew the bearing adjuster to remove it and the cover?

Am I correct ?

Or what do I need to do to remove the cover to access the nuts/bolts to remove the brake drum?

Surprisingly there seems to be little information on the web regarding the rear wheel of P11's or Matchless

Thanks for any help.
 
Yeah the Red Scrambles Motor Cycles Maintenance and Instruction Manual is a little short on how to for P11 owners. According to the Red Book the lockring and cover plate comes off if you back out the bearing adjuster. I did what you think works though. Unfortunately, I can't remember if the lock ring is bass akwards thread. I can't tell by looking at my bearing adjuster (speedo drive is what I call it). It is screwed in too far to be sure of thread direction without removing the wheel. Not doing that.

I loosened up the lock ring, then removed what they call the bearing adjuster. With the speedo side hub cover off you can remove the brake drum. It will be obvious once the cover is off.
 
Bingo 1 .... In my Norton-Villiers Limited Master Parts list 1966-1967-1968 it seems the bearing adjuster is
listed as 02.1883 and the associated bearing adjuster lock ring as 02.1584.

Bingo 2 .... Looking at the Andover-Norton web site the offending items are listed as available at £15.54 and £7.09
respectively and the associated photos look to show the thread as being right hand.

Looks like a little tap with a punch to unlock the lock ring is on for tomorrow morning after I've seen the bread lady.

If it all goes t*ts up a visit to the local brewery may be needed later in the day.
 
Good thing Andover has pics. Great website.

I used a gizmo that looks like a shock spring preload adjuster wrench to get the lockring loose. I put painter's tape on the hub cover about halfway around the lockring to protect the hub. Maybe a little too anal, but it reduces the chance of creating the ham-fisted mechanic worked on this bike look. The lockring is really soft material as is the hub cover. One slip with a hammer and punch and the cussing would start in my garage.

You won't have any problems with it, unless you decide to replace the bearings. Then you will be in for some real fun if you don't have a press.
 
Bingo 3... Alight tap with a punch and small hammer on each of the cut outs in turn and the lock ring was loosened - It is a right hand thread.

Bingo 4... As you say with the cover off ..... all becomes obvious !

Bearing is marked on outer "England", "SKF", "K-1130N1" and on the inner "T-201807"

I cannot find any references to this bearing anywhere on the web, including A-N

The part number in the list given in my post 35 above is 01.4868 again no references to be found

The bearing looks to be a tapered roller and in good condition so hopefully I won't need to replace it.

BUT the inner does not seem to "pop" out of the outer.

Any clues to getting the inner out gratefully accepted !

Thanks
 
Quite possibly the worst rear hub bearing design ever in my opinion. The inner is facing the hub inside when looking at the bearing. There is a spacer between the two bearing inners holding them in place. The outers are pressed in or beaten in with a hammer and soft drift. There is no shoulder for the bearing outers to abut to. Keeping the bearings straight while driving them in is real fun. I ground down the diameter of one of the bearings I took out and used it to drive in the new bearings. A really large press you could fit the wheel into might make the job much easier. A press that size would be really pricey though. Getting the bearings adjusted just right can be tedious first time.

There is a discussion about the rear hub axle, bearings, and spacers here somewhere. I got a link reference to a document that more or less describes how to remove and reinstall the bearings from that discussion, or I found it using google. I can't at this moment in time remember where I got the document.

I got the rear hub bearings from AMC Classic Spares. Go to the Wheels and Brakes page and search on that 014868 part number. It takes a while for them to arrive. Email works as does a phone. They are not an online store.

Baxter Cycle here in the USA lists the bearings under that part number. There are probably others that list them.
 
Following on from Bingo 4 ..... all was revealed..... and as you said possibly the worst hub design ever.

The rollers are tapered inwards (narrow end inward) so not really adjustable as the bearing adjuster butts up
against the outer and when removed the outer wide end does not allow the cage of rollers out of the hub.

The bearing at the speedo gearbox side (right of bike - timing cover side) was found to be difficult to turn and
felt rough.

The bearing at the chain side was difficult to assess as it does not seem possible to remove the large circlip
the dished "oil-seal cup", felt oil seal, seal retaining ring, packing washer and oil-seal spacer....... Or am I wrong ?

I decided half heartedly to see how easy it would be to drift out the speedo drive side bearing with a bent
Commando clutch push rod (as it was on my bench !) from the chain drive side. I used a vernier to measure
to position of the speedo side bearing outer relative to the hub. After a few taps, then harder blows the outer
did not seem to move. And the bearing remained stiff.

I then decided (rashly ?!) to give the oil-seal spacer on the chain drive side as it protruded out of the oil-seal cup
a couple of smart whacks with the copper end of Thor King of Hammers.

On remeasuring the position of the outer of the bearing on the speedo side it seemed to have moved 0.002"
or 0.003" outwards and the bearing was free and smooth to rotate. On inspection the chain wheel bearing also
now turns freely and smoothly.

The bearings are now as I would have expected them to be once properly installed, but I am very aware they were
not like this for a number of miles before my intervention with Thor King of Hammers.

It would seem the whacks with Thor King of Hammers has adjusted the difficult (impossble?) to adjust bearings.

Did I get lucky?
Did the Norse Gods smile down on me ?
Did I achieve Bingo 5 ?

My local wheel builder has a 12 Ton press and seems to know about these Matchless wheel bearings, but now,
knowing a little more about the design and difficulty of adjusting these bearing I am loth to remove and replace
them. Especially as the hub appears to have been totally refurbished by the previous owner.

Any comments and advice gratefully received. Thanks
 
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