The Keith1069 Headsteady

Yeah, I use nylocs for the frame bolts that didn't have them before. If I want it to stay put I use some sort of lock washer. I'd love to get a bunch of heico lock washers in different sizes. I know some use belleville washers, but they're expensive too and not sure they're really a lock type washer. Those stop nuts look like they'd work good for the engine mounting studs.

I've never really had any issues with things falling off, but the exhaust system takes a beating and things wear out.

Dave
69S

There is a test machine I forget the name of that is used to vibe and stress fasteners to see if they back off. What was found was any washer under a nut can cause the nut to loose clamp force and twist undone. What the machine lacks in real life condition is the heat cycling if that applies to any Norton nuts. The swash plate top steady I have on hand shows at max there is ~1/8" arc motion to take up w/o bind.

Used to use those close clearance nuts on the base cylinders of my Trident.
Worked well.

DogT said:

Yeah, I use nylocs for the frame bolts that didn't have them before. If I want it to stay put I use some sort of lock washer. I'd love to get a bunch of heico lock washers in different sizes. I know some use belleville washers, but they're expensive too and not sure they're really a lock type washer. Those stop nuts look like they'd work good for the engine mounting studs.

I've never really had any issues with things falling off, but the exhaust system takes a beating and things wear out.

Dave
69S

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Gday Dave, didnt know what a belleville washer was so heres a link for others to see if they dont know?
http://www.bellevillesprings.com/bellev ... shers.html
foxy

Foxy said:

Gday Dave, didnt know what a belleville washer was so heres a link for others to see if they dont know?
http://www.bellevillesprings.com/bellev ... shers.html
foxy

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Bluto sent me one for the clutch basket. They're just the ticket when you want lock where you can't apply too much force, like against the circlip on the mainshaft of the transmission. Thanks Bluto.

The MS21042 is kind of interesting. It's threaded through its entire length. The hex section is pressed during manufacturing so that that area is slightly oval. There's significant friction when you run the nut down. That is what helps prevent the nut backing off.

hobot said:

There is a test machine I forget the name of that is used to vibe and stress fasteners to see if they back off. What was found was any washer under a nut can cause the nut to loose clamp force and twist undone. What the machine lacks in real life condition is the heat cycling if that applies to any Norton nuts. The swash plate top steady I have on hand shows at max there is ~1/8" arc motion to take up w/o bind.

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Steve

You might be referring to the Nord-lock washers and the testing methods they used for various fasteners. http://www.railway-technology.com/contr ... rail/nord/
http://www.grampianfasteners.com/nordlock.aspx
These are pricey but they are dynamite.
CNN

Oh cool Canuk, Nord-Lock is a new item for me to keep in mind on my special.

hobot said:

Oh cool Canuk, Nord-Lock is a new item for me to keep in mind on my special.

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There look to be a good alt for perminate assemblies but appear to be a little aggressive for an item that may requires often dis and re assembly. Even a split ring will cut , as designed, and are theoretically not reusable.

The bellevlle washers are very gentle and secure but may not be suitable for perminate fastening. ka-ching
But you are right steve, alternatives are nice.

Nord-lock, that was the other one I was thinking about. Why aren't these available reasonably? They're like a buck a piece. They're the same as the heico.

Dave

I had to make a new head bracket today. The rod end on the right side was hitting the nuts on the frame mount when I jacked up the motor. so I moved the hole for the rod end out farther. I could have moved the original one down about a half inch, but I thought it was better to keep the rod ends parallel to the ground. Besides I had enough left over and it only took me this morning to un-assemble and re-assemble.

Found a loose crimp in the ignition wires in the process. That may have saved me a break down.



Dave
69S

After much fettling with the Dynodave rod seal, I finally took it off so I could use the clutch and took the bike out about 4pm today. Much better low end vibrations. At 2500 in 2nd gear on the gravel drive way, my eyeballs are not bouncing around in their sockets. I would put it at about 80% better there. On the road, I would say about the same, maybe better. Buzz in the pegs, and enough in the bars to keep moving your hands around. Not bad for a 20 minute ride though. I don't know how much to subscribe to the spring, Taglieri head steady or the fact that I opened up the clearance on the front isos to .025, but I would say it's much better overall. I have the spring pulled pretty tight, more than the recommended dimensions. I didn't see any marks anywhere around the new head steady, but I would really have to pull off the tank to make sure.

Though I would report.

Dave
69S

Thanks for the update Dog, I almost always enjoy reading your posts and usually end up learning something in the process too. Cj

Sometimes just a couple of thousandths can make an improvement, one way or another, on the adjusters. Same with the spring, you can hit the "sweet spot" with a half-turn of the adjuster nut.

The more fine-tuned your butt is, and concentrating on following the same test route, helps to try to nail it all down.

DogT said:

Here's my version.

Dave
69S

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So, how's it working two years later? I'm thinking of building one myself. What would you do differently, if anything? Where did you end up with front and rear iso clearances? Your feelings on the MkIII spring hanger? Finally, do you have critical dimensions for the pieces that you could post?
Nathan

DogT your version is about identical to Micheil Tagaleri's who came up with with a design for a hand drill and hack saw out of angle iron after my pleased report top rod link didn't transmit vibes. There is nothing critical but to allow long enough rod not to bind in too small an arc and still clear tank tunnel and try for mostly 90' rod alignment. Top link alone will not influence the need for normal iso gap setting.

Well, I don't have a lot of miles on it, but it seems fine. I pretty much missed last summer with a herniated disk in late June, but hope go get back this spring if it ever comes, it's still below freezing out there and snow and mud on the ground. There was some critical dimension, I think it had to do with the height of the mount on the engine where the link attaches. I had to re-make the engine top bracket once. I got most of my ideas from the 'Mike Taglieri's Homemade Rod-End Headsteady' one made from steel as I remember and then from swooshdave's aluminum one plus this thread. I should have made critical measurements but I didn't. The bolting together of the frame mount is a bit funky, but I was using all hand tools so it was hard to hold things in register, but it's tight. If you can weld AL, it would probably be better. The price was certainly right, it just took a couple of days. Some say to use the 3/8" rod, I used the 5/16". Would probably help to get the boots for the linkage too, or the joint with the boots if you can. I still need to get longer bolts (5/16-22x1 BSF) for the 3 Allen bolts, just been procrastinating. Only place I found SS ones is from British tools and Fasteners and they're rather expensive at $7 each for 1" ones.

If you can justify the CNW one, I'd do that, I just didn't care for the frame clamp with the DT one.

As far as the spring goes, my mission was to pull the front iso bolt up to the center of the iso mounts, the standard spring doesn't do that even fully tightened. I'd go to comstock's design with the Kibblewhite spring under the engine in a heartbeat, but I don't want to mess up the powder coat on the frame with welding and all. When the front iso sags, it also pulls the rear iso forward. I've noticed that if you can get the front iso bolt in the center (I did it by jacking up the engine), the rear one centers too. My impression is it really only affects the low speed vibs anyhow, but if it can prevent the front iso rubbers from compressing, I would think that would be a good thing. My new donuts took a set after less than a year, I found out when I put the Hemmings adjusters on.

If I did it again, I'd probably try ludwig's design, it's much simpler. If you need notes for that one, I have all the pics and notes.

Dave

hehe well if ya consider holes lining up and not fouling stuff as critical then yeah its got some critical aspects. There is not need of 3/8" size at head or breast steady as the iso cushions and gap bind take up loads otherwise translated to the top of engine so my front and top links are 5/16" but the rear needs more robust rod and mounts to last a while. I'm aware the cushions sag and take a set but so far ain't noticed any annoyances on linked Peel nor un-linked Trixie but makes sense to keep links aligned and likely lower isolation threshold. Ludwig's is dang clever but wonder if its as silence providing as a 'critically' aligned rod link. I'd imagined last decade one similar to his but with super magnets in opposition on either side but don't know what size of magnets to not allow touching at extreme corner loads, such as snapping around an object or instants of traction loss and re-grip. I may try that on Peel when I'm bored with inventing other hang up work arounds for her. Bob Patton said he's stuffed 6 large cushions in his rear to keep the sag from binding his 'rump' rod but still saw it sag in a season. I was more concerned with vibration than sag factor in Peel and Trixie so beveled the front cushions and very pleased didn't hurt handling and isolates about 1800 rpm on Peel and 2200 on Trixie. I've ridden a '71 that didn't isolaste till low 3000's which made it both miserable in Mt twisted roads that traffic prevented faster or temps to go too fast for conditions to avoid the buzz into body parts.

I didn't know the Norton hanger spring was too weak to lift and center till you mentioned it DogT, as prior thought Jim just eliminated it for clearance and looks on his special, ugh. How would us shade tree work around welding a wart under its chin? The side stand spring makes a bolt and spring directly under engine on the cross brace troublesome and pretty tight space to get spring enough to fit. I've looked at small air bladders a bit and found some that look like might just stuff under engine to self trap when pumped up enough to lift engine to neutral zone. Here ya go help me look and make solve another quirk in our obsolete wonder cycles. Might even find hollow tube type or order one up that replaces the rubber cushions to air up to suit.
https://www.google.com/search?q=small+a ... 80&bih=691

If you can justify the CNW one, I'd do that, I just didn't care for the frame clamp with the DT one.

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Dave, I like your home built head steady, nice work!

I don't know what you do not like about the DT frame clamp?

I had a DT for five years and it installed very easily and was solid without incident the entire time.

My love affair with CNW's products caused a buying spree there 2 years ago and included was Comstock's CNW head steady, very robustly built, but frankly I can't feel any difference between it and the DT

Kenny Dreer told me he experimented with adding additional donuts to the front and rear isolastics on his VRs, then went right back to the standard AN verniers after the additional rubber proved to transmit too much vibration.

1up3down said:

If you can justify the CNW one, I'd do that, I just didn't care for the frame clamp with the DT one.

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Dave, I like your home built head steady, nice work!

I don't know what you do not like about the DT frame clamp?

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I don't know, I just didn't like the looks of it, not that you'd see if after the tank is on. Plus I needed a couple day project. It appears that there's not that much stress on the frame there anyhow.

Yeah, with the AL, I used a Makita cut off saw with an old carbide blade to trim and then a file to deburr. I put rubber shields on it where the HT wires go across it. I've cut off the sharp corners in the meantime.

Dave