The ideal ignition advance curve

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Not sure I mentioned any color, yes, 110LL is blue also. I think any off road gas is blue? My off road diesel is red. Sunoco station sells a lot of different grades of racing fuel, next time I'm there I'll ask them if it's all blue. I use 110 LL because it's the cheapest at $60/5gal.
 
Not sure I mentioned any color, yes, 110LL is blue also. I think any off road gas is blue? My off road diesel is red. Sunoco station sells a lot of different grades of racing fuel, next time I'm there I'll ask them if it's all blue. I use 110 LL because it's the cheapest at $60/5gal.
I asked, because 100LL [low lead] is the most common aviation fuel found at airports in the USA. Aviation fuels all have different colors. The dye added is to prevent misfueling of aircraft. There is no such thing as 110LL in aviation. That's why I thought it was a typo. You mentioned that it's a racer's fuel. That explains the odd octane rating.
If you can get by with 100 octane, I would suggest going to your local airport to buy fuel. Certainly cheaper than $12 a gallon.
 
I used to get BP110LL at the local airport, I think it was a maybe $3 or so a gallon. Last time I went, they almost didn't give me any because of the new rules about grounding and not dispensing fuel into anything but an legit fuel tank. There are a few stations around here going to ethanol free. That may help but it won't be 110LL, probably 87. All those things listed in that linked list are at least 2 hours away, one way, and will probably have the same safety issues. I'ts not like I use that much of it anyhow, I hardly ride and I use maybe 10 gallons a year in the yard equipment. I use regular gas in the mower.
 
With my motor, I use the slowest taper Mikuni needles and fixed ignition advance. It means I need to feed the throttle on in a controlled fashion. If I used a programmed advance curve, I might be able to opemn the throttle much quicker. But because I use methanol fuel which is much more flexible than petrol, for me a programmed curve would probably not deliver an advantage.. But with all these things, you never really know until you try it.
Now here we have an interesting point, though not specifically about advance curves....throttle control....here I think we are all different....some have an auto sympathy and apply throttle very progressively to match the response they are getting, continually changing the setting, some prefer to think of it as a switch, on or off regardless of what the engine is actually doing in response.

I have seen fast racers who do use the throttle as a switch, but I have seen others who don't, and manage their speed much more sympathetically, but are in lap times equally fast, if not faster, which they normally are when the grip levels deteriorate.

My conclusion is that ignition and advance do not come as a single 'correct' setting, even on one given bike, though working with a single bike allows you to narrow the range.

The user input technique is hugely variable, what suits one will not 100% suit all.
 
What is Elf Racing Fuel ?
Elf is simply a French fuel brand!

But working with Honda and ROC they have supported some really interesting stuff!



 
Spent over five years in Detroit as an engineer. For a brief time I worked in calibration. When tuning the engine, the sensor inputs were organized into a hierarchy. If I remember correctly, assuming pump gas, the most important influences on ignition timing were: 1. RPM 2. Intake air temperature. 3. Cylinder head temperature.

Someday soon I hope to see an electronic ignition for classic bikes that includes any kind of temperature input. It need not be difficult--don't even need a 3-dimensional map. Just give us 2 curves, cold and warm. You'll see an improvement in both starting and power.
 
Engine vacuum (load and throttle position) certainly plays a part in that. Vacuum advance was standard stuff in the day.
 
I'm a throttle modulator, and rely a lot on motor brake, but I like knowing the motor can respond like a switch. I'm not that anal about timing on an old motorcycle, so don't have any technobabble stored in my brain to support anything I do with the timing. As Al said, many a street bike is likely running on the rich side, and timing isn't super critical. I quit strobing mine and merely time the Boyer EI so it doesn't kick back on cold starts. Done

I like ekuna's idea about using engine temperature to assist in controlling the timing curve.
 
Now here we have an interesting point, though not specifically about advance curves....throttle control....here I think we are all different....some have an auto sympathy and apply throttle very progressively to match the response they are getting, continually changing the setting, some prefer to think of it as a switch, on or off regardless of what the engine is actually doing in response.

I have seen fast racers who do use the throttle as a switch, but I have seen others who don't, and manage their speed much more sympathetically, but are in lap times equally fast, if not faster, which they normally are when the grip levels deteriorate.

My conclusion is that ignition and advance do not come as a single 'correct' setting, even on one given bike, though working with a single bike allows you to narrow the range.

The user input technique is hugely variable, what suits one will not 100% suit all.
When I race my Norton, I use the throttle as you would with a two-stroke - feed it on in a controlled fashion. The bike is faster that way. If I whack the throttle open, I am more likely to get a gasp in response.. Best power is achieved by keeping the mixture right, right down the needles. It is as lean as possible, but not too lean. The shape of the needle compensates for loss of vacuun. A quicker taper copes better with bigger ports. I run the leanest Mikuni needles available, in my 34mm Mk2 Amals. My main jets are slightly too rich, so when I am on full throttle, my motor gets a reprieve. Getting the bit between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle right, is critical.
 
If I race, I never do anything quickly. Smooth, slow and steady is better at hgh speed.
 
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