The cost of being cheap

Even at my age, I have to be reminded from time to time that cheaper can be more expensive!

I'm rebuilding a 74 Commando and I'm working on the front end right now. The six O-rings that stabilize the headlight brackets cost .49 GBP each from AN so about $3.85 USD total. I found a set for $3.00 so I didn't order them with my last AN order.

Yesterday, after two hours trying, I gave up installing the forks. The O-rings I bought were one size smaller than they should be so they don’t stay in place. So, "saving" 85 cents has cost me two hours, wasted $3, and I still need the right O-rings so I’m stuck on the project for now.

I believe that the O-rings are the same size as the ones on the Amal concentric carburetors if that is of any help.
John in Texas

N0rt0nelectr@ said:

I believe that the O-rings are the same size as the ones on the Amal concentric carburetors if that is of any help.
John in Texas

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They are and the ones from Amal work fine. Unfortunately, I only have two of them right now.

Installing those O-rings is a nightmare. I’ve done it after much teeth gnashing. There is a procedure, and even if done correctly there is still a likelihood that they do not “take” correctly.
There is a reason that CNW uses their style of headlight mounting brackets. That said, the OEM brackets do look very cool.

I know some of you will puke when you read this but when I 'ass-sembled' my 72 commando I had no idea of o rings in headlight ears...til the jingling started on the first ride...no way was I going to take it all apart for a rubber oring….so I got the very thinnest ones I could find at hardware store and cut them and used tip of very tiny screwdriver to poke them into space between lower yoke and bottom of ear and then put a small squirt of clear silicone windshield sealant (the type that flows into crevases) on top of oring ….result...no rattle and impossible to see...OK you can wipe yer chin now...….

Good solution.
Does anyone else keep an O ring catalogue? I’ve had one for years that always seems to be in play on a rebuild or restoration...

The way I have had success is using 1 larger o-ring on the bottom and a thinner one on top. I put the thicker o-ring in the lower yoke groove with a little grease to secure it. Put the thinner o-ring over the outside of each headlamp bracket. Align the 2 brackets into place leaving the upper yoke loose. Slide the tubes up into position through the brackets, tighten the top yoke and with a little space slide the o-ring off the headlamp brackets over the fork tube (now they are under the top yoke) and snug up the yokes and the tubes. Put a little grease on the upper o-ring in case you have to move the brackets to fit the headlamp as this helps to keep the o-ring from twisting out of position.
The o-ring is now in place and the brackets are as well. I hope that makes sense.

Cheers

I've never had a problem with the correct O-rings. The key is that the OD fits snugly in the yoke and the ID slips easily over the fork tube. The O-rings I was sold are one size smaller so they are loose in the yoke and they drag on the fork tube when it's being inserted. This causes them to end up inside the headlight bracket rather than under it.

There is another way that turns out well but is more work:

1. Fit the forks without the headlight brackets and snug the top nuts, bottom nut, and lower yoke pinch bolts.
2. Remove the top nuts and bottom nut and remove the forks and lower yoke as a unit.
3. Slip one 1-1/2" OD, 1/8" thick O-Ring over each fork tube (or two standard size) and put them down into place.
4. Slip the headlight brackets over the fork tubes.
5. Put the standard O-rings in the top yoke (hold with grease)
6. Slide the fork unit into place and into the top yoke and snug the bottom nut
7. Install the top nuts and tighten.
8. Loosen the bottom yoke pinch bolts.
9. Make sure the front end is straight and fully tighten the bottom nut
10. Tighten the bottom yoke pinch bolts.

This takes away the fiddly part of working on them but it's a lot of steps and can be a little hard to get everything lined up in step 6 if you're working alone.

1-3/8"x1/16": -028 is the standard size, i saved a set of worn fork tubes to act as guides when installing the HL brackets and bottom yoke...

The purpose of the o-rings is to prevent the brackets from rattling so as long as they stay in place the problem is solved. No wonder the company when out of business, too many after thoughts.

Jim

I never knew these o-rings existed until this thread and I've just completed a fork overhaul job. I did not remove the HL and ears during the process so hopefully did not disturb the original rubbers. Then again I do get a metallic tingle/jingle sort of noise at certain low rpms....before the overhaul...have not yet run bike since.

Re. Cost of being cheap:

" Bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price"
-ancient Korea proverb on a local food cart.

This is what I did..

https://www.accessnorton.com/posts/371901/

You hardly need the O rings afterwards.

Seasons greetings,

cliffa.

Tornado said:

" Bitterness of low cost lingers long after the sweetness of low price"

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Paying too much only hurts once.

XTINCT said:

Paying too much only hurts once.

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Unfortunately it seems to be a self inflicted, continuous process with some of us.

Actually, Jim, Norton-Villiers demise was primarily a personality-division issue. I was working there towards the end of the Commando prototype testing and into the early work on the Stormer.

Norton had been purchased out of bankruptcy by a very wealthy former race car driver. He already owned the Villiers company, which made small industrial engines (for lawn-mowers, chain saws, etc.) and which once had a big presence in the smaller motorcycle market with their 2-stroke singles and twins (125ccs - 300ccs) Their biggest seller was the 197cc model 9E. He bought the sad remains of Norton from the bankruptcy regulators and formed N-V. Initially he based the development activities in the Villiers plant in Wolverhampton, where I joined the company. He had assembled a very good group of engineers, I think from BSA, the moribund Associated Motorcycle Company, and from several of the other "cottage industry" motorcycle makers. He recruited a Rolls-Royce Aero Engines management man (Dr. Stefan Bauer) to be Managing Director.

At first, everything seemed to be going well and I was starting in on what, I'd been told, would be my responsibility - building up a good quality experimental test lab, which I may have been able to configure to be mobile. Everything went sideways after the introduction of the Commando at the Earl's Court show in late 1966. N-V had spent a lot of money on the Earl's Court show with a screwball PR outfit, which turned out to be the funding intended for my instrumentation lab. I ended up as one of the road test riders on the Commando - great fun, but not what I expected. I also did most of the initial road-testing on the Stormer. since most of the Commando guys had moved to London when the Commando became a production machine.

After several more major and minor debacles, I decided out would be a good place to be. I accepted a job with Boeing and I and my family went though the emigration routines, finally going to the US in early July 1968. I retired from Boeing in 1998.

N-V floundered along for a few more years, primarily because of its successful moto-cross efforts, and actually got the Stormer into production. I don't know how many were built, but I did come across publicity of a few of them in the US.

XTINCT said:

Paying too much only hurts once.

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Until the wife finds out !

cliffa said:

Until the wife finds out !

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Don’t keep records.

Don’t let her in the shed.

With these two life rules, all should be well...

I encountered the same issue as marshg246. I could not get both ears to fit tight without rattling.

I bought these from McMaster/Carr and they did the trick.
https://www.mcmaster.com/90025k258

I used the factory o-rings along with the x-rings to get the ears tight.

Fast Eddie said:

Don’t keep records.

Don’t let her in the shed.

With these two life rules, all should be well...

Click to expand...

I think somebody here posted fairly recently that when he buys a new bike he always buys the same color. That' way the "boss" doesn't really notice there's been a change!

As far as going on the cheap, I will admit that despite learning the lesson at a rather young age and recommending to other that they not prefer cost over quality, I still continue to do it on occasion. And it still has never worked! Recently I needed a small jewelers screwdriver for essentially a one-time use. I have two sets of top quality watchmaker screwdrivers but they are not here in Mexico so I ran out and bought cheap set of 5 screwdrivers to get the one I needed. It broke on the first attempt to use it. They say that the definition of "crazy" is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result!