The 4 cylinder that almost became a Norton

There may have been a time when LK fancied keeping a low profile.

Apparently, the Vanwall car was fast enough to be competitive. however it understeered badly. I don't know how to fix that problem in cars. With a motorcycle, it is an easy fix. When a bike oversteers when gassed hard, it is excellent. Fixing understeering in a car might be expensive ? A 500cc Paton twin should be good, but I think it might nasty and difficult to ride fast. A well-developed Domiracer might be good, but a move away from light cranks had not really been tried. I am surprised by the Commando engine's capabilities. It should never have been capable of beating a TZ750.

baz said:

This is brilliant

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If you have Joe Craig's research notes, would you please collate and publish them ? A step forward always helps.

acotrel said:

Apparently, the Vanwall car was fast enough to be competitive. however it understeered badly. I don't know how to fix that problem in cars. With a motorcycle, it is an easy fix. When a bike oversteers when gassed hard, it is excellent. Fixing understeering in a car might be expensive ? A 500cc Paton twin should be good, but I think it might nasty and difficult to ride fast. A well-developed Domiracer might be good, but a move away from light cranks had not really been tried. I am surprised by the Commando engine's capabilities. It should never have been capable of beating a TZ750.

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You should ride a modern Manx Al to calibrate your thoughts and opinions.

We have to remember that more development has been lavished on the Manx since the factory stopped production than was done by the factory during its production ! Plus they are now made on machinery and with availability of components the factory could only dream of !

Short stroke, 6 speed, 4 valves, modern carb, EI, modern pipe (no megaphone-itis), modern rubber, modern K-Tech suspenders both ends, 125kg wet post-race weight, etc.

Beautifully precise, nimble, agile. A surgeons scalpel…

I did not really know what made a Manx Norton excellent until I rode one. I do not want to repeat my bullshit about oversteering when gassed on a lean - but that is what they do, and they are not light in the front. For many years I raced a short stroke 500cc Triton, and I have also ridden my mate's 650cc Triton. Both bikes were faster than the Manx in a straight line, however most race circuits consist of about one half as corners. I only ever lowered the gearing on my 500cc Triton, and my mate did not see which way I went. The Manx was better. I did not buy it, because I could not afford to race it.
A real race bike is very different from a road bike. The biggest joke was when my mates got the 250cc Aprilia Production Racer. Everybody who rode it, crashed it. They could be going like the wind, all tucked in - then suddenly find themselves getting up off the road.
There is a thing about road racing, you never really know what the other guy is riding. Many years ago, I got done by a guy riding a factory 250cc Cotton road racer. He was much older than me, and just rode around me. It is the only one in Australia.
All motorcycles look alike.

It does not matter how good the bike might be, if you do not know how to use it properly. My Seeley 850 is very different. I suspected what it could do, however the first time I tried it - I was very apprehensive. The only reason I recognised the oversteer, was I had ridden the Manx..
If the bike oversteers when gassed on a lean, it is safe to gas it very hard. But the weight must be well forward. If it oversteers, it will have less lean.
If a two-stroke did this, it might tie itself into a knot.
Understeer is the tendency to run wide in corners. Two-strokes usually have more lean.