take the Commando on a trackday, good or bad idea ?

acotrel said:

baz said:

acotrel said:

I suggest you need to be objective about taking your bike onto a race track. It should be the safest situation you will ever find yourself in. If you try to go fast too soon you will certainly crash. The worst thing you can do with your commando is go into a bend too fast and panic, if you over-react you are on the ground. If you work up to speed slowly and concentrate on being smooth you should not have a problem. When you are starting out, you should take note of the other bikes and riders . If there are some fast bikes there be careful not to 'shut the gate' in corners - i.e. always leave room above and below you in the corners so the other guys always have somewhere to get past you. You should set yourself a strict rev limit for your motor and don't exceed it, work at becoming smooth and try to keep count of your gear changes.- You should be in the same gear at the same places around the circuit. You should find the experience great fun, and you might even become a competent rider.
I am actually jealous of what you are about to do. I'd love to be starting out at a track day with an old commando - it would be great ! Relax and enjoy it.

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so now acotel you say you would love to be riding an old commando for the first time on a track day!! after previously stating "you would not be happy to ride a bike that relied on its head steady for good handling" are you involved in politics by any chance? regards baz[/q

I'd ride a commando at a track day even with that idiocy. It would be like riding a pre- unit Triumph - they are what they are. Better to fall off at a track day where the ambulance is waiting than in front of a truck on a public road,

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i have owned and ridden many pre unit triumphs and also many different commando's i can honestly assure you they do not compare ,even a commando with a loose swingarm pin and 40 thou ISO's handles better!! than a pre unit triumph as for the ambulance waiting for you best not to fall off then !! or better still stay in the house nice and safe

acotrel said:

I once won a race with a Suzuki Cobra with virtually no brakes. Simply ride within the boundaries the bike permits. If it handles badly simply adjust to it, if it is underpowered become super smooth and take wide lines in corners keeping your rolling speed high around the apex, and be careful you don't knock somebody else off their bike. Track days are not speed events. As always, take care.

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did you have the front hub crack on the cobra ? we used to brace the frames from the swingarm pivot to the top rails and brace the swingarm and replace the nylon bushes with bronze ones but still you had crap front forks but a very fast torqey motor (for a stroker)

UNfortunately unless ya have spent a bunch or plan to spend a bunch you'll likely be mostly disappointed with the Commando power performance unless running mostly well above 5800 so expect to feel like a relaxed sight seer on tour in the opens and save the wear tear thrills for pressing the turns. Even if I was on a race track I don't think i have the heart any more to wring out a factory level C'do now - I know better. Would be educational to see if ya can get valves to float for an instant loud misfiring power loss or hang on to top out at least once. Engines become elastic near red line so expect some sealing weeps and strained chains and of course tuning issues street use ignores. A conflict to resolve betwix mature ego-less bland restraint vs hard hearted hooping and hollering thrill seeker. Like pool halls though each place has its local hot shots of friends/clubs you might be invited into - then what's ya gonna do when they come for you... bad boy bad boy bad boy....

I saw one of those T500 Suzuki drum brakes with large holes drilled in it to let the air in. It broke through between every hole so that the liner and spokes/rim & tyre were held up only by the brake shoes etc. The guy did not crash, however it was sheer good luck. They were not a bad brake if you only changed the linings and kept the mods limited to the backing plate. The problem with the one I raced with was that it had the original linings and faded dramatically after about one lap.

'i have owned and ridden many pre unit triumphs and also many different commando's i can honestly assure you they do not compare ,even a commando with a loose swingarm pin and 40 thou ISO's handles better!! than a pre unit triumph as for the ambulance waiting for you best not to fall off then !! or better still stay in the house nice and safe "

Baz, motorcycling is all about risk management - definition of the term 'safe' : 'a situation or condition where the risks are minimized to a level which is tolerable to all stakeholders'. You could stay home and die of boredom, or die in bed of a heart attack having wasted your life having no fun. When you crash on a public road, the likelihood of dying is much higher than on a race track - the slogan 'speed kills' is bullshit - speed plus incompetence kills. All you need to do is work up to high speed slowly, and learn to take care.

I was involved in writing this document :

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4564,d.dGI

I would point out that most motor racing circuits are designed to operate in one direction only. If you crash trying to go around you will usually crash where every other idiot has crashed before you - no solid objects. If you panic, sit up and brake then run straight off, you will often find the fence. A simple slide to the ground is usually of no consequence , as long as you don't try to stand up too soon.

Have a listen to Peggy Hyde, she makes sensible comments about road racing.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRqk2UL17DY

acotrel said:

I was involved in writing this document :

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4564,d.dGI

I would point out that most motor racing circuits are designed to operate in one direction only. If you crash trying to go around you will usually crash where every other idiot has crashed before you - no solid objects. If you panic, sit up and brake then run straight off, you will often find the fence. A simple slide to the ground is usually of no consequence , as long as you don't try to stand up too soon.

Have a listen to Peggy Hyde, she makes sensible comments about road racing.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRqk2UL17DY

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What a gutsy lady !!!

She is really funny to talk to, even these days. If you say anything which could even slightly be construed as competitive she still reacts. I told he what a friend of mine said - 'she didn't beat me at Bathurst' - he was a top A grader, for him to even say that means something. She made us all look silly. I used to race my old SS 500cc Triton when she had the H1 Kawasaki - I got nowhere near her. These days she lives on a yacht in the harbor at Townsville in North Queensland - they had a big cyclone a few days ago.

This looks like it might be herself :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbuamecARQo

I can only think of one other young woman who has gone well in road racing in Australia. I can't remember her name, however she was riding a highly developed CB350 Honda racer for a guy who spends squillions on his hobby. She eventually became too difficult for him to cope with. Peggy Hyde was really exceptional, and really good for a laugh as long as you weren't the one getting beaten by her.

acotrel said:

... the slogan 'speed kills' is bullshit ...

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True.

It's not the SPEED that kills, it's the sudden STOP.

All mommies know speed and height kills so make their pilot sons promise to always fly low and slow so not to worry them so much. I almost broke my prefect no crash corner score going too fast on Ninja into a tightening down track chicane for the 2nd curve, Only popping up straight to really brake hard saved us that time with a lingering sense of what can and can't be done. Grantee a few bikes passed by me while I was freaking out til almost stopped yet didn't care at all at the time. This creep up on limits only works so far as tires feel dang planted right up to when they chirp,skip slip and frame forks steady as she goes right up till sudden increasing tank slapping onset. Have fun using up the engine and tires and gaining lasting wisdom's the safest way there is. Make arrangement for trailer home in case someone else takes you down no fault of your own. I've crashed a bunch on THE Gravel sharper turn slowing up too much too fast front washed out - just over walking speeds SPLATs too many times to remember and still get taken down like couple months in bee lines two brakes on rear just couldn't take it SPAT 15 ish mph. Strange dichotomy, too slow the wheel gryo's don't help., while above some scary speed slides don't instantly jerk ya down or fling ya over overhead. Faster Gravel turns the front has slipped out, often by popping up fist size stone to roll over a tire width to wiggle wooble instantly but resisted snatch downs long enough to get back in line and carry on the wiser on how much bikes at speed tend to self recover thank goodness.

Looking at this speed thing logically, if you do your machine preparation, manage the risks (including wearing appropriate personal protective equipment ) and work up speed slowly without doing anything stupid before you become competent - why would you hurt yourself ? - the water is not that cold - jump in.

" i have owned and ridden many pre unit triumphs and also many different commando's i can honestly assure you they do not compare ,even a commando with a loose swingarm pin and 40 thou ISO's handles better!! than a pre unit triumph as for the ambulance waiting for you best not to fall off then !! or better still stay in the house nice and safe "

Some may dispute this . theres Pre Units and theres Pre Units . The 61 / 62 dual cradle frame isnt completely atrocious . In fact the geometry - 25 degree head angle , is comparable to curret hot rubbish .
On unsealed surfaces theyd make a monkey out of a lot of suposedly superior machines . On the hard , the twich in the RRs is no worse and likely not as bad as say a Z1 .
This is assumeing its put together thurougly and the bolts are tight . On decent tyres . Unlike std Jap issue of the era . :lol: :x . :lol: . :!: . and the steeing dampers on .

The Commando without a damper needs caution on joins & ridges in the tarmac , washouts etc . Though again - likely better chassis balance than any whizz bang to stock spec. introduced pre 1970 . :lol:

The Era of ' Never Back off ' when commited to a bend .
A track being a site more predictable than the road unseen .

Matt Spencer said:

" i have owned and ridden many pre unit triumphs and also many different commando's i can honestly assure you they do not compare ,even a commando with a loose swingarm pin and 40 thou ISO's handles better!! than a pre unit triumph as for the ambulance waiting for you best not to fall off then !! or better still stay in the house nice and safe "

Some may dispute this . theres Pre Units and theres Pre Units . The 61 / 62 dual cradle frame isnt completely atrocious . In fact the geometry - 25 degree head angle , is comparable to curret hot rubbish .
On unsealed surfaces theyd make a monkey out of a lot of suposedly superior machines . On the hard , the twich in the RRs is no worse and likely not as bad as say a Z1 .
This is assumeing its put together thurougly and the bolts are tight . On decent tyres . Unlike std Jap issue of the era . :lol: :x . :lol: . :!: . and the steeing dampers on .

The Commando without a damper needs caution on joins & ridges in the tarmac , washouts etc . Though again - likely better chassis balance than any whizz bang to stock spec. introduced pre 1970 . :lol:

The Era of ' Never Back off ' when commited to a bend .
A track being a site more predictable than the road unseen .

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Yes i agree the duplex cradle pre unit handles better than the simplex pre unit but that frame still left a lot to be desired hence the triton regards baz

The Triumph's bolted-together front and rear sections probably has a lot to do with.

:mrgreen: I may not be perfect , but parts of me are excellent . :lol: :lol: :lol:
Doesnt really illustrate the security of the steering head casting .



If youre not pussyfooting around , you cant pussyfoot aroud tightening ALL the powertrain / frame bolts . No paint in the joints .


Bonneville preunit in azione guidata dal mitico collaudatore/pilota Percy Tait



4.10 - 19 TT100s both ends the front ploughs through the tarseal road troughs o.k. . Wondering if it did loosen the fillings .
Seemed to have a bit of bother then , and it wasnt the vibration . Rutted old chip seal highways were a bit of a pounding .
Got the ton on the Horeke Road , reputed to be the roughest gravel road in the country at the time . Though parts were slower .

Seen the single loop things use more than their share of the road though , considerably . o.k. for M-X , ridgids stiffer than swing arm .
Still , the Duplex steers well if lent inside of neutral through rough patches & Held with the power . if youve got any . And it did .
Took a fair grip and wracked your spine . Kydney belts sensable for any stroppy rideing . Saves busting youre guts . :twisted: :mrgreen:

BY FAR the most valuable thing you should attempt on a race track -making sure traffic is clear and run out room available- is to go into a fairly long sweeper till THE Hinge becomes apparent and imprint on how little extra speed and loads it takes, - just beyond what feels perfectly stable... WeeWhooDoggieDoo! If not taking the opportunity to get a sense of *sudden* dangerous limits then mostly just an accelerated wear trip for some new friends - which is good in its self but could be done at sane long travel to any biker stop and rally. At least sloppy un-tamed C'do will onset weave/wobble, bucking broncho, gal in orgasm > at humanly controllable rates and forces to stifle/recover, while the more rigid and balloon tire things take a good bit faster/higher loads before it just snaps down or flys up rather faster than humans can even resister let alone muscle resist. I of course am a tire sniffer so please take photo's of the tires after a good flinging around, though pegs and center stand or mufflers likely most noisey photographic first. Might consider single 50 'wt' grade oil for the heat thinning protection. If spending much rpm-time in lower gears might consider a ATF for the sleeve bushes health. Do check clutch wobble before and after the outing & chains slack too. Also feel tires and tranny and chain heat as soon as ya can after a hot lap or more. A non contact temp device would also be educational to us all. Would love a report on the re-torque sense on return.

The '69 Bonneville I rode in my favorite Ozark Mt hwys and THE Gravel felt handy on the loose off road stuff and hwy up to the point felt like a wagon wobbling to press around turns low and powered like even an ordinary un-tamed C'do.

ARGGHH ; But Pre Units are Superior . At least in the brazed cast steel lug frames , Polar moments & ridgidity of unit reduces feedback , at least , Its stiffer AFT , but crankeyer forward as less supported or triangulated .
You DONT get the steering head dithering on the mighty Duplex ( which is a asineen designation , as its Dual Cradle ) , Like a COMMANDO . But bolted together at least a half dozen places more . If you do a Rally type ' cut '
itll swap sides leant , use the power to push it across , once started . Near identical tecnique to Commando . Though less nervous if the Norton front ends still stiff / stock forks .







Malcolm of the Island .

As they say: “Bikes defy Gravity, cars just suck!”


ANYWAY : wear a decent kydney belt of weight lifting belt , for the Track . A M-X one'd do .