Stop damaging your motors with oil shut off valves

Several people have contacted me about the disasterous results of running their motors dry because a shut off valve was used to prevent wet sumping. This has ruined some very fine motors that were in excellent condition prior to self imposed oil starvation. Sadly I just heard from another victim.

The solution is to never use a shutoff valve in the first place.

People are worried about wet sumping when there are safe easy solutions to get around it.

1. All motors take a few seconds to build up oil pressure. If all your oil runs into the sump there will be plenty of bottom end lubrication with the crank dipping into the oil until a few squirts of return oil cover the outlet tube in the oil tank. If you haven't started your bike in awhile and you're parinoid about it - add a cup of oil before kicking it over.

2. If you're nervous about blowing out a main seal then simply add a viton Oring between the sprocket and the main seal. 1/16" cross section x 1-1/16" ID. Use viton because regular Orings can crack when exposed to air over time.

3. If too much oil in the sump creates kick start resistance then you can install a reed valve sump breather that will help evacuate the excess oil to the oil tank.

Lots of motors have been ruined because of oil shut off valves. Practically none have been damaged from wet sumping. If you absolutely must have an oil shut off valve then spend the extra money for one that you must open before turning on the ignition key and make sure its fool proof.

My crank seasl didn't blow out, it literally split apart, leaving the outer ring still in the case and the sealing lips torn away.

This was only discovered when primary fillled, overflowed out the felt seal, all over rear of bike and tire. Could have a potentially disasterous effect while riding if no noticed quickly.

I run a manual ball valve, ful open bore same ID as hose, and have a micro switch fitted to cut off ign circuit when valve closed.
I recently watched Jay Leno's JPN video, a bike he has owned for more than 45 yrs. He has a warning buzzer on his oil shut off valve.

Wet sumping is a concern for me as last year on my return for a couple of months holiday I had a lake of oil from the Commando that passed to crank seal, went into the chaincase and out through the breather holes in the CNW starter inner case.

I have just purchased an oil syringe (Sealey AK54 if you’re interested) and only this morning I’ve drained the oil tank on the Trident as that wet sumped on me a few weeks ago. I will be doing the Commando tomorrow having just had a final ride this afternoon, all prior to my heart op next weekend.

Both bikes have had the keys removed and put into an envelope each with NO OIL clearly written on them.

Flatspot said:

Wet sumping is a concern for me as last year on my return for a couple of months holiday I had a lake of oil from the Commando that passed to crank seal, went into the chaincase and out through the breather holes in the CNW starter inner case.

I have just purchased an oil syringe (Sealey AK54 if you’re interested) and only this morning I’ve drained the oil tank on the Trident as that wet sumped on me a few weeks ago. I will be doing the Commando tomorrow having just had a final ride this afternoon, all prior to my heart op next weekend.

Both bikes have had the keys removed and put into an envelope each with NO OIL clearly written on them.

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Might want to also put a label on the bike itself as to the no oil state. Say on the clocks or seat, painters tape or a paper tag with a bit of string/wire tie etc. Just makes more sense as a reminder.

I also have shut off valves with a micro-switch on them so that the bikes cannot be started if the valve is closed.

It's only me that rides now, and with several bikes it's the only way I can keep on top of it all.

They work great, and I'm pretty happy with using them.


I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like this post is just another advert for your stuff.

I have bought things from you in the past, and it's superb quality. But the childish way you are behaving at the moment is really impacting my respect for you and the likelihood I will buy anything again.

It's really disappointing behavior.

Flatspot said:

Wet sumping is a concern for me as last year on my return for a couple of months holiday I had a lake of oil from the Commando that passed to crank seal, went into the chaincase and out through the breather holes in the CNW starter inner case.

I have just purchased an oil syringe (Sealey AK54 if you’re interested) and only this morning I’ve drained the oil tank on the Trident as that wet sumped on me a few weeks ago. I will be doing the Commando tomorrow having just had a final ride this afternoon, all prior to my heart op next weekend.

Both bikes have had the keys removed and put into an envelope each with NO OIL clearly written on them.

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Hope it all goes well for you

gforce said:

… the childish way you are behaving at the moment is really impacting my respect for you…

It's really disappointing behavior.

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Would some power the gift gi’e us,
To see ourselves as others see us.

R. Burns: “To a Louse,” modern English version by me.

Tornado said:

Might want to also put a label on the bike itself as to the no oil state. Say on the clocks or seat, painters tape or a paper tag with a bit of string/wire tie etc. Just makes more sense as a reminder.

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I always write no oil in felt pen on the primary casings, it's easily polished off

To me the logical solution is to place a place non-return check valve on the high pressure side of the oil pump.

Dan1950 said:

To me the logical solution is to place a place non-return check valve on the high pressure side of the oil pump.

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BSA twins had that.

Dan1950 said:

To me the logical solution is to place a place non-return check valve on the high pressure side of the oil pump.

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Not sure this is a possibility on Commando without engineering the casings. Unsure if oil sitting at high side gear of pump can make its way past to low side (return oil) gear then on down to sump. There was a recent thread where someone was struggling to solve very rapid wet sumping, looking at pump sealing to casings etc. Turned out oil was getting past pump in an unexpected fashion I think?

Gforce

I mentioned everything I know of to help stop these oil starving disasters. I don't care how its stopped or whose parts are being used. I just don't like to see it happening.

jseng1 said:

Gforce

I mentioned everything I know of to help stop these oil starving disasters. I don't care how its stopped or whose parts are being used. I just don't like to see it happening.

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Indeed. A disaster waiting to happen. Crank underground to next size. New rods and pistons to oversize. Plus all the time and labour. That was fun. Oh yes , plus the seizure itself when the ball spring stuck in closed position. . .

So easy to pull a drain plug, mine only wet sumps if it sits for a few months and in a way it keeps the cam fully lube when sitting, never had the problem when my Norton was a everyday rider, but its semi retired now and my 1200 Thruxton has taken over the Norton's duties.

I don’t have a breather valve or shut off valve and never worry too much about it. The Mk3 has a built in check valve, but it doesn’t work very well. After 5 months most of my oil was in the cases. Here is a movie of the wet sump start after 5 months

I bought parts from you Jim, and will continue to do so in the future. Does that make me a bad person?

Crank cheeks are full of oil are they not? Doesn't it take more than a few seconds with the valve closed to blow up the bottom end?

I agree people should not use shut off valves if they cannot remember they are there. Hanging the ignition key on the valve handle would work, but a buzzer that goes off when the valve is closed and the ignition is turned On can work for a larger audience. Works for Jay Leno. I think I might start hanging my ignition key on mine. I'd really have to be brain dead to take the key off the valve and not open it. Then again going from where I am today to brain dead is a short trip.

Jerry Doe said:

The Mk3 has a built in check valve, but it doesn’t work very well. After 5 months most of my oil was in the cases.

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If there was still some oil in the tank after 5 months (although it doesn't completely empty) then it can't be working that badly!

Oil will also leak along the pump spindle unless the O-ring mod has been done.

L.A.B. said:

If there was still some oil in the tank after 5 months (although it doesn't completely empty) then it can't be working that badly!

Oil will also leak along the pump spindle unless the O-ring mod has been done.

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The oil level was about where the filter is inside the tank.

Jerry Doe said:

The oil level was about where the filter is inside the tank.

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If the oil was at the bottom of the filter gauze then it could have been at that level for some time then.

A few years ago at a Norton rally we went on a group ride. It took about 20 minutes of brisk riding before one of the engines blew up. Conrod through the cases etc. It turned out that that after a rebuild he had inadvertently switched the oil lines so obviously the damaged is not immediate.