start up after rebuild

I know this will have been done to death on here so can anyone point me towards a thread where this is laid out so clearly that even the densest of people (that's me by the way) can print it off and use it as a checklist?

My tank and side panels are ready for collection after spraying so I've run out of excuses not to have a go at starting the bike but I'm paranoid about missing something and setting myself back 6 months.

The engine has been rebuilt completely with new pistons, honed bores, crank rebuild, new gearbox, PW3 cam, and the cylinder head fully refurbished. I've now got 34mm Amal Concentric MKII carbs, Pazon ignition and a single coil. It's got a complete new wiring harness and everything apart from the idiot lights works and the rolling chassis has also been fully rebuilt.

I'm planning on putting oil down the rocker covers, priming the rocker feed pipe, priming the feed from the oil tank and then kicking it over a few times with no plugs in and no fuel going to the carbs but what should I check before fitting the spark plugs and giving it a drink of unleaded?

I'm not expecting the timing to be bang on but it's been set static and I'll strobe it once it's running and I'll check the carb balancing once it's started then check the mixture is in the ballpark using a Colortune but this kind of thing takes time with a new engine running in the workshop and no air going over the engine so is it a good idea?

Come on guys, you've never let me down before so cover yourselves in glory

Andy_B said:

I know this will have been done to death on here so can anyone point me towards a thread where this is laid out so clearly that even the densest of people (that's me by the way) can print it off and use it as a checklist?

My tank and side panels are ready for collection after spraying so I've run out of excuses not to have a go at starting the bike but I'm paranoid about missing something and setting myself back 6 months.

The engine has been rebuilt completely with new pistons, honed bores, crank rebuild, new gearbox, PW3 cam, and the cylinder head fully refurbished. I've now got 34mm Amal Concentric MKII carbs, Pazon ignition and a single coil. It's got a complete new wiring harness and everything apart from the idiot lights works and the rolling chassis has also been fully rebuilt.

I'm planning on putting oil down the rocker covers, priming the rocker feed pipe, priming the feed from the oil tank and then kicking it over a few times with no plugs in and no fuel going to the carbs but what should I check before fitting the spark plugs and giving it a drink of unleaded?

I'm not expecting the timing to be bang on but it's been set static and I'll strobe it once it's running and I'll check the carb balancing once it's started then check the mixture is in the ballpark using a Colortune but this kind of thing takes time with a new engine running in the workshop and no air going over the engine so is it a good idea?

Come on guys, you've never let me down before so cover yourselves in glory

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I keep a beat up old window fan in the garage for just such occasions. Not enough for a dyno pull, but plenty for idling and a few blips.

Have you verified there is spark (plug laid on the head)?

Oil tank lines double checked routed correctly?

Air filter (and the flame arrester) fitted properly? Fire extinguisher or two close at hand?

Yes it's a very nervous and anxiety filled mental state to fire up for first time such a labour of love. The next following feeling is the happy payoff from all the efforts involved. Does your workshop have a bay door and any windows to fully open ? Carbon monoxide buildup would change the glee moment to gee , I think I'll lie down and have an afternoon nappy moment. Yes to a gasoline rated fire extinguisher handy and a box of baking soda to toss on and hot situation. I'd have a friend there too. Just in case. To pop the champagne with right after.

I'm not worried about ventilation as such because I've got double doors I can open to vent any fumes and as long as we avoid the 100 year storm that's allegedly crippling the western side of the Atlantic I can wheel the bike out onto a paved area in front of the doors and run it up there but what does worry me is running it off load while I mess about with fine tuning for an extended period of time and worse than that I might forget something really basic before I go for the big kick.

Once you have pumped up the oil to the head and down the rockers it should be fine to go, I have never used a timing light before, set the timing saticly using a degree wheel and it should be pretty close to the mark, 3 rebuilds on my Norton and it started first kick everytime, when started it easy to time it by just advancing it till a bit of kickback then back it off a wee bit is all I have ever done, I have never relied on the timing marks, if you have a degree wheel is the way to go.
Its such a good feeling when they fire up first kick, good luck.

Ashley

Get your bike gear ready. Once its started and runs, ride it. If it goes without any problems , ride it hard. That's the only way to bed those rings in correctly. Do 3 - 4, 5-10 mile runs and don't nurse it. It should then be run in correctly. Then ride it harder for a while [ and I don't mean rev the shit out of it, make it work, hill work is good ]

Dereck

kerinorton said:

Get your bike gear ready. Once its started and runs, ride it. If it goes without any problems , ride it hard. That's the only way to bed those rings in correctly. Do 3 - 4, 5-10 mile runs and don't nurse it. It should then be run in correctly. Then ride it harder for a while [ and I don't mean rev the shit out of it, make it work, hill work is good ]

Dereck

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word.

kerinorton said:

Get your bike gear ready. Once its started and runs, ride it. If it goes without any problems , ride it hard. That's the only way to bed those rings in correctly. Do 3 - 4, 5-10 mile runs and don't nurse it. It should then be run in correctly. Then ride it harder for a while [ and I don't mean rev the shit out of it, make it work, hill work is good ]

Dereck

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My understanding is that it's important to start seating the rings as quickly as possible without the stress of riding loads.

Snorton74 said:

kerinorton said:

Get your bike gear ready. Once its started and runs, ride it. If it goes without any problems , ride it hard. That's the only way to bed those rings in correctly. Do 3 - 4, 5-10 mile runs and don't nurse it. It should then be run in correctly. Then ride it harder for a while [ and I don't mean rev the shit out of it, make it work, hill work is good ]

Dereck

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My understanding is that it's important to start seating the rings as quickly as possible without the stress of ridingoads.

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Just as Keri said.....ride and run it up to about 60 and let off gas...back up and down again...I think there is a thread here detailing process..

Fwiw my suggestion is part of the instructions provided by CNW with my rebuilt engine. They're very particular about their startup procedure.

It seems that what to do after starting is a bit of a divisive subject but I'm more interested in what pre-start up checks that I should be doing. I'll be looking at it on Saturday and once it's had some oil pumped around without running the motor I'll give it a go and see what happens.

Check out this site...some very informative reading about breakin procedure..

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I've heard the arguments from both sides many times over the years and because I've got an engineering background and work on rotating equipment all the time I find it hard to get my head around the idea that running a motor hard straight after a rebuild is good for it. I've seen plenty of new components fail over the years and that first 20 minutes of running is the best chance to check that you've got everything right.

For what it's worth we always used to run race engines up to 70% of the normal operating temperature then cut it and let the heat soak through the engine. Once the temperature had dropped to 40% then we'd run it all the way up to full temperature and try to hold it there by using a cooling fan on air cooled or let the fan do the job on water cooled engines. They always got at least 10 minutes of that with the engine being regularly revved up to about 50% of the maximum permissible but not by blipping the engine hard. Once we were happy they be given hell on the dyno but this was for engines that were only getting between 2 and 10 hours before a strip down depending on what state of tune they were in.

That's not really relevant to my current dilemma because even though mine has a PW3 cam and bigger carbs it's not a race engine and isn't being refreshed after 10 hours

Ugh, new ring sealing, if using dry ring install or better Bon Ami polish powder like TotalSeal rings sells, should seat smokeless in a few minutes on initial start up, especialy in our loose piston clearance Nortons. What is ignored by these ring break in methods is the real bugger in new engine 'run in' is cam/lifter burnishing/break in which requires over 2000 rpm for oil layer surfing and takes like 20-30 min. Cam/lifter break in can be done in separated intervals to avoid over heating galling of new rings in new bores, but at risk of galling lobes/lifters if let idle slow before burnishing finished. IF a new build can't take zooming right up over 2000 and blows up then best to find out at home. I reccomend after rings and cam run in done in this short interval, to change oil and oil filter, to open & examine, before engaging clutch to ride off. I timed Trixie Combat phases of initial run in, faomy grey oil started to flow back to oil tank in about 43 sec @ 2500-3500 rpm, with normal pre oiling till oil came out the sump plug from crank fill, then by 54-55 sec. the moderate amounts of white exhaust smoke cleared right up. Ran her another min. or so then shut down to cool some then re-start to finer tune timing and idle air screws then another few min of 2500 to 5000 rpm blips then shut down changed oil & filter to hit the road keeping rpms over 2000 with hi throttle inteval use for 50ish miles - done with breakin. Surprised to never see metalic fuzz worth wiping off of sump her magnet and more pleased when carb boots hidden cracks ate Trixie rings/bores up that cam lobes and lifter surfaces were more polished than comnoz had devilered them. Put in new rings with bores *slightly* honed [not rebored] and she stopped smoking in about a min of high rpm start up. Got to "recently" last spring, check cam/lifters again as still better than pristine d/t re-opening to reseal case leaks left over from the excessive blow by smoking I lived with till too much oil fouling began to mis fire going out drive way and oilly mess, [only if giving much throttle or over 70], so gave in to another long interval of no running Norton awaiting its time inline of other failure priorities piling up and up.

And use the proper breakin oil for the motor. Do not want to use synthetics etc.

I didn't do anything special. Just started it, rev to 2500, made sure oil was returning to the tank and started riding, not hard, country road speeds going through all the gears. Straight SAE50 and it seemed to break in just fine. Can't say I've noticed it's changed in the meantime. Changed to 20W50 V-Twin in the meantime and the top end and timing case seem quieter.

Well it all became a bit irrelevant because it didn't want to start

All I got out of it were a few pops and bangs but nothing significant. I'll give it another go tomorrow because today I was trying to run it off a remote fuel bottle that I use for carb balancing and running fuel to the left hand side and feeding the right hand one via the balance line probably isn't ideal.

It's got a good spark at both plugs so if it doesn't get anywhere near firing tomorrow I'll go through the timing again and make sure everything is right. It should be right because nothing has changed since I set it but checking it costs nothing apart from time. As far as I'm concerned if it's got fuel and it's got sparks it should at least try to start and it isn't.

Andy_B said:

Well it all became a bit irrelevant because it didn't want to start

All I got out of it were a few pops and bangs but nothing significant. I'll give it another go tomorrow because today I was trying to run it off a remote fuel bottle that I use for carb balancing and running fuel to the left hand side and feeding the right hand one via the balance line probably isn't ideal.

It's got a good spark at both plugs so if it doesn't get anywhere near firing tomorrow I'll go through the timing again and make sure everything is right. It should be right because nothing has changed since I set it but checking it costs nothing apart from time. As far as I'm concerned if it's got fuel and it's got sparks it should at least try to start and it isn't.

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The crossover should feed it fine for start up. Pull the plugs, dribble a teaspoon of gas/shot of ether and swiftly spin the plugs in, and give it a go.

The old trick of heating plugs on the gas cooker then screwing them in quick before starting may also help but dont do it if your putting fuel in though plug holes!!

Part of the problem is that I bought the bike as a half completed project so certain things aren't as I would have had them and I'm having to learn about a lot of new things. I also chose to make some assumptions about new components on the bike being 'right' and now I'm having to make a few guesses regarding how to proceed. Add that lot together and there's the potential for some lost hours.

I've not touched the bike today (yet) but a tiny lightbulb flickered in my brain last night and at about 10pm I was out there checking the pilot airscrews. All the way in can't be right so they're now 2 full turns out and the bike will be getting a snort of ether down the plug holes then no throttle when I kick hell out of it.