stainless spokes - installation tips?

ordered up a set of bachanan spoke kits for the commando. my original grays are showing their age, but the nipples, especially with the rears, I've been fighting the rust issues living so close to the ocean here in florida. just tired of dealing with it. I've never laced up MC rims before, so any tips on the procedure. not knowing any better, I was basically going to leave the hub in place and replace one spoke/nipple at a time. any issues doing this, or something better? BTW, stock WM-2 Dunlop rims (MC286) - bachanan kit (rear) .281 nipples w/ 8 ga. spokes, front seems to be a standard kit.

Think you will find a spoke at a time will not work, you will come across a point where you need to bend a spoke, ok for the old one but not ok for the new. It also means you loose the chance to clean up the hub properly.

Other tips

Best nipples to go with stainless spokes is nickel plated brass spokes, less chance of galling than a stainless nipple and still no steel to rust.

Copper grease on the spoke thread and on the head of the nipple where it turns against the rim.

Take copious pics of the rim and spokes before removing a single spoke.

Do not tension a single nipple on a spoke until the rim is running true side to side and concentric to the hub (ignore the weld at this point), all you do is run the nipples down the spokes until they just touch the rim and then spin the rim, then adjust the nipples but if you need to move the rim from left to right then loosen the left before tightening the right.

Then once the rim runs true you can apply tension evenly, spin regularly to check and adjust the tension if it starts to go off plus you can use some tension to compensate for the weld but accept the weld will always give a kick as its passed.

The disc front rim is one of the hardest rims to get right, the disc side spokes are nearly vertical and the non disc are not, so as soon as you apply tension to the non disc side it pulls the rim over out of the correct position. So do the rear first.

On the rear the nipple size changed around a bit 72 to 74, so measure yours and make sure you get the correct nipple size.

joe czech said:

BTW, stock WM-2 Dunlop rims (MC286) - bachanan kit (rear) .281 nipples w/ 8 ga. spokes, front seems to be a standard kit.

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The original front-wheel nipples/rim holes are .300"

joe czech said:

stock WM-2 Dunlop rims (MC286)

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Only the rear (drum brake) rim should be an MC286 which is the heavier 9 gauge (9 SWG) spoke and .300" nipple rear rim as fitted to some 850 Mk2/2A models.

I would expect the front (disc) rim to be MC275?

L.A.B. said:

Only the rear (drum brake) rim should be an MC286 which is the heavier 9 gauge (9 SWG) spoke and .300" nipple rear rim as fitted to some 850 Mk2/2A models.

I would expect the front (disc) rim to be MC275?

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correct - double checked, front MC275

The way I did it was to clamp the hub to a bench and then clamp the rim to the bench concentric with the hub and with spacers under it to get the correct offset. Then fitted all the spokes loosely. Next tighten them all finger tight. Then unclamp everything and mount the wheel on a spindle of some sort and tighten each spoke half a turn or so. Check alignment as you keep tightening. It was easier to do than I expected and quite satisfying to achieve.

One of the big things with SS spokes with SS nipples is to use the thread lube that Buchanan's supply with the spokes. Thread galling using SS on SS is real. It will also make the job go much easier.

I've built up lots of wheels with Buchanan spoke and nipple kits over the years, ss spokes with chrome steel nipples, and ss spokes with ss nipples. Some with swaged or 2 diameters spokes, some just one diameter. For street, road race, and flat track. Flat track were one diameter spokes, Kennedy hubs. Built the flat track with stainless nipples because of the track conditions/chemicals. The chrome nipples look better to me on a street bike. The kits come with thread lube and instructions. Buchanans are the best, good guys to deal with and talk to. I've had them build wheels for me also.

well, they say there's a first time for everything, so this should be interesting, to say the least. thanks for the replies, and thanks LAB for the vintage bike article. think I need to do a little homework before jumping into this....

update - just got a call from the folks at bachanan's. basically, they ask me what size spoke nipples were on the Norton. replied with .300 (actually measured out at .303 - F/R) seems they are going to supply the correct .300's vs. the .281's, I thought I was getting in the kit(s). from the phone call, super nice people, so two thumbs up for these folks!

What every one has said plus you may find some of the threaded spoke stands proud of the nipple inside the rim. In which case I would sand/file/grind to make flush with the nipple and remove any burrs. This will help prevent the spoke from wearing a hole in the inner tube.

joe czech said:

well, they say there's a first time for everything, so this should be interesting, to say the least. thanks for the replies, and thanks LAB for the vintage bike article. think I need to do a little homework before jumping into this....

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The Vintagebike article describes lacing a 'Central Wheels' (CWC) 'handed' 3x1 dimple pattern rim (06-1951) but doesn't mention the original Dunlop MC275 rim which has a normal 1x1 dimple pattern but is also handed.

Couple more things. Buchanan spokes come with a 'B' on the head of the spoke. I've ground this off and buffed/polished to look more original, but mostly have left the 'B' on. Buchanan might do this for you. Also they offer (or used to) polished spokes. But I have also scuffed the standard spokes with fine Scotch Brite to make them look like the original zinc plating or whatever it was. Colorado Norton Works uses Buchanan spokes, maybe have Buchanan build their wheels - ask Matt about this.

Buchannan has done both of my wheels in polished stainless spokes. They knew all about the front rim offset on a Norton when I talked with them. Beautiful job they did on both.

Joe,
Just to be clear, do you have a disk brake front rim? If so it will have an extreme offset similar to a Triumph T140 rear wheel. I would start with the rear drum wheel first and that way you'll have at least one wheel build worth of experience before tackling the front. The front can be tricky, but if you follow the instructions in the Vintage Bike article you'll be ok.

first time lacing. update - rear wheel assembly finished and ready to mount the tire. quite the learning experience. well pleased with the outcome, but can't take all the credit. rebuilt the hub, bead blasted the hub and a couple minutes in the chem-film bath (PPG DX-503). cleaned and repacked the bearings. I had a little difficulty installing the stainless spokes, but my good friend and my personal Norton tech advisor came over and gave me hand (again, thanks Jeff). I made a couple offset blocks and got what I measured as within .010" offset (best I could measure was .177" i'm thinking spec is 3/16" or .1875") of my original measurement. runout - best we could do is .027 side to side, and .033 up/down. might be able to get closer, but would probably spend a lot of time just to get a little better. can't believe my original readings were any better. rear down, front to go....

Needs a chrome cover now.

joe czech said:

first time lacing. update - rear wheel assembly finished and ready to mount the tire. quite the learning experience. well pleased with the outcome, but can't take all the credit. rebuilt the hub, bead blasted the hub and a couple minutes in the chem-film bath (PPG DX-503). cleaned and repacked the bearings. I had a little difficulty installing the stainless spokes, but my good friend and my personal Norton tech advisor came over and gave me hand (again, thanks Jeff). I made a couple offset blocks and got what I measured as within .010" offset (best I could measure was .177" i'm thinking spec is 3/16" or .1875") of my original measurement. runout - best we could do is .027 side to side, and .033 up/down. might be able to get closer, but would probably spend a lot of time just to get a little better. can't believe my original readings were any better. rear down, front to go....

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Well done, looks good.

Your run out numbers are typical. The old guy that trained me always told me the tire would take care of the rest.

What is with the balance weight on the rim? It is a little premature to be doing balancing before the tire is mounted.

Derek Wilson said:

Well done, looks good.

Your run out numbers are typical. The old guy that trained me always told me the tire would take care of the rest.

What is with the balance weight on the rim? It is a little premature to be doing balancing before the tire is mounted.

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old weights from previous mount - will remove and rebalance.

maylar said:

Needs a chrome cover now.

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agreed. have a new cover from old britts - not chrome, but polished aluminum.

joe czech said:

not chrome, but polished aluminum

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Which matches the originals.

final - it's done, and back on the road...