Sparking plug choices

Hi

Don't get Lodge plugs I fitted special Lodge plugs for electronic ignition, cost lots and the bike conked suddenly on me after about 2 weeks (the only time it's ever let me down on the road in 31 years) I decided that the only thing that I had recently changed was the plugs and put in NGK BP7 ES and she fired straight up again! I've used them ever since changing them once in a blue moon. It starts better and goes better.

Also get a Spitfire Multi- Spark and if you haven't got an unleaded proof head then a Fuel Cat best two products I ever bought especially the Fuel Cat, no more mucking about with fuel additives. You can get them from 0044 (0) 1403 754173.

Dave

Tell me more about the Fuel Cat and how it works. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there; some claim it doesn't work, some claim it's a scam. I would be interested to know how a device in the fuel line could have an effect on valve seat longevity while using unleaded fuel.

I have used Champion N7Y, N6Y and NGK BPR 7EIX(Iridium) on my Commando's and all work well including starting. I can't really tell any differences in performance with any of these except the Iriduim requires less attention. I have also used them all with Boyer or points and type of ignition is irrelevant, I set the gap to 0.028in for all types.
BTW I have not used a Fuel Cat but the previous owner of one of my Commando's said he always used them and was satisfied with the results. However I removed it and prefer to use the Lead additive just to be sure. I'm not sure how you would know if they work without removing the head after using it for a few thousand miles and checking.

" I would be interested to know how a device in the fuel line could have an effect on valve seat longevity while using unleaded fuel."

It uses the same technology that makes your car run better after you've washed it!

Tetra Ethel lead is one of the most deadly poisons known to man, (goes right through skin) at last count about two people in the states are OK to handle it. Do you really think that it could be sold in a can to John Q public? So it’s a lead substitute you are buying I don’t know why when so many of us here need nothing. I know of two Commando riders doing 10,000 miles a year with nothing but pump gas and 4 cycle oil and tires. They don’t do the boards much (no time).

I'm with our friends across the pond on this one, I'm sure all Commandos were made to run unleaded as this was what was availalble in the states at the time - they did away with leaded fuel a long long time before us, and I may be wrong but California did away with it even longer than the rest of the country. I just run on the higher octane stuff from the pumps and have had nil probs of tappet gaps closing up, and I'm sure we would have heard of it being a problem by now if was ever going to happen.

Spark plugs can do funny things to a bike. They can change how the bike runs like night and day. You have to play a bit, there is no "this ones it" there is just "works for me”. Now here in the States our gas has been changed to a formula that is less likely to gas off.
The volatile elements have been decreased in steps over time. That means that you need more gas for cold starts once the motor is warm it will run fuel like this without problems. So getting good starting and good running are two different problems. But self cleaning Platinum plugs do seem to help. I like cheap and available anywhere so I run Autolite’s AP 63‘s and the hotter 64’s I gap them at about .35 to .40 depending on the coils and the E.I.’s toughness. But with points you need the old .025 gap. These plugs rust with winter storage so it’s best to use a Bosh WRP7 for this. They are plated. The WRP7’s are also a good plug just kind of soft for my taste. With Autolite’s plugs if you feel them foul (soft running) just turn the motor at 4000 RPM for one minute and they clean right up. After a long hot run if you are then forced to run very slow for more than two miles you can hear the plugs start loading up if we tuned our bikes to run lean enough down real low and hot, then cold starts would be very hard. So your gas, your carb and your riding style cause us all to have a “what works” opinion that can be different and all right. All the Platinum plugs are resistor plugs and this seems to be why many run the NGK BES series they are non resistor. But with a toughened coil these cheap self cleaning plugs you get at any Wal-Mart seem to work for me in all the BSA Norton and Triumphs. But that’s just me. Try to tune your bike so that the tan is just disappearing to the unassisted eye ball. Find safe performance. You might need that choke after all.

norbsa48503 said:

Tetra Ethel lead is one of the most deadly poisons known to man, (goes right through skin) at last count about two people in the states are OK to handle it. Do you really think that it could be sold in a can to John Q public? So it’s a lead substitute you are buying I don’t know why when so many of us here need nothing. I know of two Commando riders doing 10,000 miles a year with nothing but pump gas and 4 cycle oil and tires. They don’t do the boards much (no time).

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http://tetraboost.com/info/

I use it in my race bikes, so does almost everyone else in the paddock (4 STROKES!) Tested and proved....very few people bother with the hassle of AVGAS any more!! yes, you do need to be careful with it.....

Hi

The fuel cat consists of a pack of lead pellets that are inside a metal cage which you simply drop into your tank and it treats ordinary unleaded fuel. I have 10.25 to 1 pistons and my bike used to pink like crazy on unleaded but now no problem. I is simply the best cheap mod you can make. I had a 1200cc pack due to 4s cam gas flowing etc.

JAYMAC said:

I have used Champion N7Y, N6Y and NGK BPR 7EIX(Iridium) on my Commando's and all work well including starting. I can't really tell any differences in performance with any of these except the Iriduim requires less attention. I have also used them all with Boyer or points and type of ignition is irrelevant, I set the gap to 0.028in for all types.
BTW I have not used a Fuel Cat but the previous owner of one of my Commando's said he always used them and was satisfied with the results. However I removed it and prefer to use the Lead additive just to be sure. I'm not sure how you would know if they work without removing the head after using it for a few thousand miles and checking.

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I'm certainly no expert in this area, but tetra-ethyl lead added to the fuel apparently did two things. It raised the octane level (resistance to detonation) and acted as a lubricant for the valve seats and guides. The only reason that I know of for increasing octane level is to reduce detonation (pinging), so one way that you should be able to tell if whatever you're using works is whether or not it reduces or eliminates ping. If you didn't have pinging to start with, you're trying to fix a nonexistant problem. The absence of lead in the fuel reportedly is most noticed by valve recession. The way you know that you have valve recession is that the rocker clearances tend to close as the valves recede. When you periodically adjust your valves, you should check before you loosen them to see how much they've opened or closed. If they repeatedly close, you likely have valve recession; you don't need to take the head off to find out.

What the new lead substitutes do depends upon what they are designed for. As someone else posted, you're likely not adding tetra-ethyl lead. It's a substitute. Just because one product raises the octane level does not mean it will protect the valve seats and guides as lead did. However, I think that most of the additives claim that they do. I do know that some of the additives can foul plugs if improperly used (usually by using too much).

Bottom line, if your engine doesn't ping and you don't notice valve recession, I wouldn't add anything to the fuel (and I don't).

I have an old car ('66 Ford Galaxie 390 c.i.d. convertible) and I use a lead substitute with each tank of premium unleaded fuel to protect the old, softer valve seats from being hammered into submission. Although I don't put a lot of miles on the car, I've been driving it for over 6 years now and it runs as well as the day I brought it home if not better.

I frankly wouldn't worry about it (lead additives). I drove a '68 340S (10.5:1 compression) Fastback Barracuda for 20 years as a daily driver (sold it in 88 like an idiot!) and from the mid 70's on it only got unleaded premium fuel, never any additives, During the late 70's My wife ran it as a bracket racer every weekend while I raced the "real drag car" (various Mopars in SS classes over the years) - again, the Barracuda got only normal unleaded premium fuel. When I sold it in '88 the compression/leakdown was excellent and as part of the buyer's offer, we took it to the dragstrip where it turned a 13.5 just as it had years before when my wife raced it. I think a lot of the lead additive stuff was fueled by fear and by the folks who make additives.

I think the problem with valve recession is real with some engines. However, I have monitored the valve clearances of my bikes over the years and have not had any problems to date. I have a 61 BMW that I've run unleaded in with no additives since unleaded came out and have had no problems (at least ten years). It also doesn't ping on 87 octane regular gasoline. To date, I'm not running additives in any of the bikes that I own (I currently have eight bikes).

I don't wonder if the whole soft valve seats was some sort of excuse trying to get the lead left in the gas by the oil companies. It may have been cheaper to leave the lead in (improving their profits).
Similarly to the way the ethanol has been foisted on us, the alcohol is cheaper that gasoline...

swooshdave said:

I don't wonder if the whole soft valve seats was some sort of excuse trying to get the lead left in the gas by the oil companies. It may have been cheaper to leave the lead in (improving their profits).
Similarly to the way the ethanol has been foisted on us, the alcohol is cheaper that gasoline...

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Swoosh,

The oil companies loved lead. It was a cheap way to increase octane. The additives that they were forced to use cost more than lead. Lead was outlawed by the EPA because it damaged catalytic converters and added to pollution. As someone else said, it's deadly poison. If the oil companies had their way, we'd still be using lead.

Ethanol is not cheaper than gasoline. In fact, gasoline has to cost $3.00 or more to make it cost effective. Of course, the true economics are not a factor. The government has been subsidizing ethanol production for decades. That's how Archer Daniels Midland became a massive agricultural industry; through government subsidies.

I used to be an ethanol fan. It made perfect sense to me. It was a renewable resource that we could grow here at home and avoid foreign oil. However, I'm no longer a fan. It's become a government subsidy boondoggle, it's a disaster in engines (corrosive and lower energy than petroleum fuel) and is expensive.

By the way, have we completely hijacked this thread? Or, should I say have I completely hijacked this thread?

:?

I have had the same Champion N9s in mine for at least 15 years, never thought to change them.

swooshdave said:

I don't wonder if the whole soft valve seats was some sort of excuse trying to get the lead left in the gas by the oil companies. It may have been cheaper to leave the lead in (improving their profits).
Similarly to the way the ethanol has been foisted on us, the alcohol is cheaper that gasoline...

Click to expand...

Tetra-ethyl lead was an additive made by separate companies, one of which, at least in this area, was a spin-off of a major chemical company. Of course, the petro-chemical industry is inter-related, but I'm not sure adding lead had a profit motive. The oil companies produce(d) what the automotive engineers design(ed) their motors to burn, not the other way around. At one point, lead was necessary, but at some later time became less so until it was outlawed completely. Perhaps the automotive engineers saw the inevitable banning of lead and worked towards that end for a time rather than making a changeover all at once.

And in case all the thread-jacking about leaded vs. unleaded seems too far off-topic, the demise of lead in fuel is the single biggest life extender for spark plugs as well as humans.

Danno said:

And in case all the thread-jacking about leaded vs. unleaded seems too far off-topic, the demise of lead in fuel is the single biggest life extender for spark plugs as well as humans.

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Cheers Danno! On the other hand, too much additive will likely do the same thing.