So There I Was When Suddenly...

Tornado · Apr 11, 2022

...lost power at speed. At first thought it was just the strong gusts of wind hitting me, but then bike wouldn't accelerate with throttle. Engine sounding rough. Pulled over. Throttle blips seemed ok. Quick look over all seemed good. Back out on to road, 50meters and again sudden power loss with engine still running. No recovery this time with throttle blips. Switch off. Another check over. No obvious wiring come adrift. No oil spill. Good fueling. Throttle cables working fine. Try turning over engine ign off. It sounded bad, like something failed inside engine. This was first long ride out after re-torquing head bolts yesterday following a re-bore a few months ago.
While awaiting a hauler, mind went to all the worst possible causes, loosing a piston wrist pin circlip, a valve seizing, a cam follower letting go. During the 3 hr ETA for the hauler, decided to pull the plugs and see what could be learned. Both looked perfect, no mess of oil. A bit more looking around and bingo, the left side intake manifold was missing the outer side bolt to the head. Insulator gasket was all a skew and inner bolt about half way backed out.

So seems I was running a 425 c.c. engine for a little bit there. Tried hand tightening ther remain bolt to see if it could get me home. She fired up and I got about two miles down road before it too jettisoned itself. Luckily the gasket stay aboard and the hauler arrived within next 30 mins for the 2 hr trip home.

So I'll call this a successful failure as it could have been a much more extensive problem. In all, this cost me the price of a couple of bolts and my time, hauler was fully covered by my autoclub membership. There was no sign of locktite on the bolt still on the bike. The shop that did the re-bore and other work were the last time the carbs were off.

concours · Apr 11, 2022

Tornado said:
...lost power at speed. At first thought it was just the strong gusts of wind hitting me, but then bike wouldn't accelerate with throttle. Engine sounding rough. Pulled over. Throttle blips seemed ok. Quick look over all seemed good. Back out on to road, 50meters and again sudden power loss with engine still running. No recovery this time with throttle blips. Switch off. Another check over. No obvious wiring come adrift. No oil spill. Good fueling. Throttle cables working fine. Try turning over engine ign off. It sounded bad, like something failed inside engine. This was first long ride out after re-torquing head bolts yesterday following a re-bore a few months ago.
While awaiting a hauler, mind went to all the worst possible causes, loosing a piston wrist pin circlip, a valve seizing, a cam follower letting go. During the 3 hr ETA for the hauler, decided to pull the plugs and see what could be learned. Both looked perfect, no mess of oil. A bit more looking around and bingo, the left side intake manifold was missing the outer side bolt to the head. Insulator gasket was all a skew and inner bolt about half way backed out.

So seems I was running a 425 c.c. engine for a little bit there. Tried hand tightening ther remain bolt to see if it could get me home. She fired up and I got about two miles down road before it too jettisoned itself. Luckily the gasket stay aboard and the hauler arrived within next 30 mins for the 2 hr trip home.

So I'll call this a successful failure as it could have been a much more extensive problem. In all, this cost me the price of a couple of bolts and my time, hauler was fully covered by my autoclub membership. There was no sign of locktite on the bolt still on the bike. The shop that did the re-bore and other work were the last time the carbs were off.

Do your own work, you'll know what you have.

johnm · Apr 11, 2022

Are you using the Allen screws with a spring washer?

Never used loctite and solid for 40 years. You need a cut down key for the inner pair.

ashman · Apr 11, 2022

Happened to me about 30 years ago was coming home from a full day out and was just on night fall so was dark, it happened just outside of Woodford so about 45 minutes from home started to run on one cylinder and when pulled over couldn't see a thing but bike was able to run my mate was on his AJS but was able to make it home, next morning had spark both side so carbs next and sure enough one side manifold was lose, was all it was so new spring washers on the allen bolts and never had the problem again, could have fixed it as had the cut down allen key in the tools but being dark, but didn't lose the bolts just lose.

Ashley

Tornado · Apr 11, 2022

johnm said:
Are you using the Allen screws with a spring washer?

Never used loctite and solid for 40 years. You need a cut down key for the inner pair.

No lock/spring washers...none shown on parts diagrams AFAIK. Was wondering if these were good idea here. I do run them under the carb to manifold nuts to avoid needing excess torque there, risking carb distortion.
I have a micro ratchet with a hex bit which just fits to make the inner bolts work quite easy. Just not onboard during riding.

mean gene · Apr 11, 2022

Do your on work, you'll have yourself to blame!!! LOL

johnm · Apr 11, 2022

Tornado said:
No lock/spring washers...none shown on parts diagrams AFAIK. Was wondering if these were good idea here. I do run them under the carb to manifold nuts to avoid needing excess torque there, risking carb distortion.
I have a micro ratchet with a hex bit which just fits to make the inner bolts work quite easy. Just not onboard during riding.

Just took a look at the diagrams and yes they do seem to be plain washers.

But I have used spring washers since forever.

Tornado · Apr 11, 2022

johnm said:
Just took a look at the diagrams and yes they do seem to be plain washers.

But I have used spring washers since forever.

Will add them. Also to any other place that might be lacking, such as the MK2 HamCan filter cover side bolts, the fuel tank from & rear nuts (though Nylocks they seem pretty easy to turn after multiple R/R's of tank).

concours · Apr 12, 2022

Tornado said:
No lock/spring washers...none shown on parts diagrams AFAIK. Was wondering if these were good idea here. I do run them under the carb to manifold nuts to avoid needing excess torque there, risking carb distortion.
I have a micro ratchet with a hex bit which just fits to make the inner bolts work quite easy. Just not onboard during riding.

Nylocs for the carbs.

concours · Apr 12, 2022

ashman said:
Happened to me about 30 years ago was coming home from a full day out and was just on night fall so was dark, it happened just outside of Woodford so about 45 minutes from home started to run on one cylinder and when pulled over couldn't see a thing but bike was able to run my mate was on his AJS but was able to make it home, next morning had spark both side so carbs next and sure enough one side manifold was lose, was all it was so new spring washers on the allen bolts and never had the problem again, could have fixed it as had the cut down allen key in the tools but being dark, but didn't lose the bolts just lose.

Ashley

...and these stories are proof positive, that "running lean (weak)" mixture will not melt/hole a piston, burn a valve, and all the other folklore, unless you are RACING. (Or have the space and bravado to hold it WFO for more than a few seconds)

Derek Wilson · Apr 13, 2022

Yup - they come loose - I "nut-and-bolt" my bike several times per year - Rule number 2 of "Norton Club":

1. When your Norton is running badly, you wrench on your Norton.
2. When your Norton is running well, you wrench on your Norton.
3. When you are not wrenching on your Norton, you ride your Norton*

*meaning don't let your Norton sit unridden for long periods of time - they don't like that.

Tornado · Apr 13, 2022

Derek Wilson said:
Yup - they come loose - I "nut-and-bolt" my bike several times per year - Rule number 2 of "Norton Club":

1. When your Norton is running badly, you wrench on your Norton.
2. When your Norton is running well, you wrench on your Norton.
3. When you are not wrenching on your Norton, you ride your Norton*

*meaning don't let your Norton sit unridden for long periods of time - they don't like that.

Please submit this amendment to #3 to the Norton Club ruling body on my behalf :
"When you are not wrenching on your Norton, you ride your Norton while carrying your wrenches onboard."

Derek Wilson · Apr 13, 2022

Tornado said:
Please submit this amendment to #3 to the Norton Club ruling body on my behalf :
"When you are not wrenching on your Norton, you ride your Norton while carrying your wrenches onboard."

So true and duly noted - My fastback tail section and half of the RHS saddle bag are reserved for an extensive tool kit on my ride

Tornado · Apr 13, 2022

Derek Wilson said:
So true and duly noted - My fastback tail section and half of the RHS saddle bag are reserved for an extensive tool kit on my ride

I have not come up with an acceptable storage option on my Roadster Commando. Been carrying tool set in a backpack. The left side cover has a "cubby hole" but my go to tool set in a soft case just won't fit there. Might try repositioning battery to make space along side it for this case.

Derek Wilson · Apr 13, 2022

Tornado said:
I have not come up with an acceptable storage option on my Roadster Commando. Been carrying tool set in a backpack. The left side cover has a "cubby hole" but my go to tool set in a soft case just won't fit there. Might try repositioning battery to make space along side it for this case.

If you don't have an e-start, and a decent alternator, you don't need much of a battery... I was running an 8 Ah before I put in my e-start, left lots of room in my battery box. Shorai would make that even smaller. If you had a 3D printer, you could make a "form fitting" tool box to utilise the space to the best possible extent.

Food for thought...

concours · Apr 13, 2022

Derek Wilson said:
If you don't have an e-start, and a decent alternator, you don't need much of a battery... I was running an 8 Ah before I put in my e-start, left lots of room in my battery box. Shorai would make that even smaller. If you had a 3D printer, you could make a "form fitting" tool box to utilise the space to the best possible extent.

Food for thought...

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

andover-norton.co.uk

Split between the side cover cubby, and this tray, it is enough.

gortnipper · Apr 13, 2022

There is a slightly different tool tray for the Mk1a and Mk2a, that has slightly more room due to the lack of the bulge...that accommodates what?

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

andover-norton.co.uk

Mart UK · Apr 13, 2022

concours said:
Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

andover-norton.co.uk

Split between the side cover cubby, and this tray, it is enough.

When riding anywhere local, I carry my cargo net in that tray and my phone in my jacket. For longer rides, the cargo net comes out and straps my tool bag onto the back of the seat.

I can't get tools in the tray, not long enough.

Tornado · Apr 13, 2022

gortnipper said:
There is a slightly different tool tray for the Mk1a and Mk2a, that has slightly more room due to the lack of the bulge...that accommodates what?

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

andover-norton.co.uk

Yes I was wondering how such a tray can fit my MK2 (not yet an "a" ) as that space looks tight without a tray.

If the side cover cubby was an elasticated material rather than solid, sure would be more functional IMHO.

L.A.B. · Apr 13, 2022

gortnipper said:
There is a slightly different tool tray for the Mk1a and Mk2a, that has slightly more room due to the lack of the bulge...that accommodates what?

The only difference between the Mk1A/Mk2A and Mk3 tray as far as I'm aware is...

...the Mk3 tray has a slot for the seat catch.

So There I Was When Suddenly...

Tornado

concours

johnm

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