Simon Crafer Gyroscopic Effect and Inertia

I bet I'd ride by you like you were chained to the guardrail (Armco)
That is really funny. I used to race a 500cc Triton in Allpowers races at Winton, and keep up with them. I don't know if I am a good rider, and I don't even believe in good riders - only good bikes. The rider adapts to the bike. That is the reason I would never race a modern bike - I don't want to crash that fast.
I was really surprised my bike was capable of grabbing the lead from three 1100cc CB750 Hondas, It should not be able to do that. It's motor is nothing.
I think some guys do less well because they are defeatist. Getting hosed-off when halfway down a straight is a common occurrence.
 
Yes I've changed fork yoke offsets many times and frame rakes
And I have used raked yokes
But I've only been doing this for 44 years so not really long enough to comment here?
Then, you would know how a Yamaha TZ350 handles - my bike has the same wheelbase, but instead of the rake being about 26 degrees, mine is 27 degrees. The fork yokes are the same. However a TZ350 usually comes on song with a rush, and has more lean. When your bike is more upright and has smooth, strong power delivery and oversteers, it is faster in corners. It takes a lot of trust in tyres to accelerate hard when on large angles of lean, especially with a peaky motor.
 
Then, you would know how a Yamaha TZ350 handles - my bike has the same wheelbase, but instead of the rake being about 26 degrees, mine is 27 degrees. The fork yokes are the same. However a TZ350 usually comes on song with a rush, and has more lean. When your bike is more upright and has smooth, strong power delivery and oversteers, it is faster in corners. It takes a lot of trust in tyres to accelerate hard when on large angles of lean, especially with a peaky motor.
No I have not ridden a tz350 so I wouldn't know
Unless you are suggesting because my bike has a 27° rake and 40mm yoke offset it'd handle the same as a TZ ?
Without taking into account
The weight
The weight distribution
The C of G
The unsprung weight
The wheel diameter
The wheelbase etc etc?
Did you think about answering my question about Peter Williams involvement in developing the first commando?
Or answering my question about the commando you once rode
IE early 750 or 850?
 
That is really funny.

No, none of this is funny. It's pathetic that you insist that you have some superior knowledge from your racing experience and yet you keep insisting that less trail makes a bike more stable when every video, every book, and every person here is clearly telling you that you have it WRONG.

And just like the Peter Williams statement that you make and have been corrected on about 10 times, you keep on saying it.... over and over.

I think by now you should realize that all these mistakes that you continuously repeat have removed any doubt that you are just talking out of your ass 90% of the time... Personally, I might enjoy reading about your experiences racing if you didn't keep lecturing the class about the science of motorcycle geometry, which you clearly no nothing about...

BTW, when I first argued with you about some physics related topic, I mentioned that I worked on a Dirt Race car pit crew. Your comment back to me was that everyone you knew who worked on cars was a poseur. That comment now seems pretty ironic coming from you....
 
Then, you would know how a Yamaha TZ350 handles - my bike has the same wheelbase, but instead of the rake being about 26 degrees, mine is 27 degrees. The fork yokes are the same. However a TZ350 usually comes on song with a rush, and has more lean. When your bike is more upright and has smooth, strong power delivery and oversteers, it is faster in corners. It takes a lot of trust in tyres to accelerate hard when on large angles of lean, especially with a peaky motor.
How MUCH faster in corners?
 
Fellas, this has maybe gotten a bit out of hand. Let's cool it. Which is worse, repeating the same weird half dozen fantasies, or repeating the same corrections, expecting Al to change his mind on the half dozen fantasies? If being wrong got you banned, dare I say, we'd all be banned.

If we can set the record straight, so as not to mislead other users, then we've done our job. Asking Al to stop must be rhetorical, because anything else is pointless. It seems that we're his connection to what used to be for him, so here we are, the fence post he'd talk to otherwise.

As much I find the wild threats of Al "showing us how to ride a motorcycle" hilarious, the conversation is unproductive. Let's all go ride our motorcycles and have a laugh.
 
Fellas, this has maybe gotten a bit out of hand. Let's cool it. Which is worse, repeating the same weird half dozen fantasies, or repeating the same corrections, expecting Al to change his mind on the half dozen fantasies? If being wrong got you banned, dare I say, we'd all be banned.

If we can set the record straight, so as not to mislead other users, then we've done our job. Asking Al to stop must be rhetorical, because anything else is pointless. It seems that we're his connection to what used to be for him, so here we are, the fence post he'd talk to otherwise.

As much I find the wild threats of Al "showing us how to ride a motorcycle" hilarious, the conversation is unproductive. Let's all go ride our motorcycles and have a laugh.
I agree
But in the back of my mind I wonder if some people would think this stuff is true ?
I'm put in mind of the time Al advocated for someone to remove the head steady from a commando and fit a steering damper instead!
It's possible someone could try that in this crazy internet world we live in
 
But in the back of my mind I wonder if some people would think this stuff is true ?
I'm put in mind of the time Al advocated for someone to remove the head steady from a commando and fit a steering damper instead!
It's possible someone could try that in this crazy internet world we live in
You know, we've killed the lions, the tigers and the bears, so if motorcycle maintenance is the opportunity for humankind to cull those that need culling, well, ok.
 
This is similar to the idea of forgiveness, and that christians (not that the particular religion is important to the analogy) are encouraged to forgive others. My only qualm with that idea, is you can't forgive or excuse someone who doesn't confess their guilt or their admit their mistake....

If Al said, "Wow, I had the whole trail and stability relationship backwards. I need to rethink my whole understanding of what I experienced", then that would be a correction of his mistake. But, no one should excuse his insistence that he's right and everyone else is wrong.... It really shouldn't be such a big deal for anyone here to find out they were wrong about something, unless they are supporting some delusion they have of their expertise, which seems to be the case.

Clearly, if you say 1 + 1 = 5 over and over again, no one should accept your statement as true, and you certainly can't claim to be a math expert... and yes it's gotten to a sickening point. Most of us are just waiting for the "I was wrong" for it to be over...
 
This is similar to the idea of forgiveness, and that christians (not that the particular religion is important to the analogy) are encouraged to forgive others. My only qualm with that idea, is you can't forgive or excuse someone who doesn't confess their guilt or their admit their mistake....
Of course, but forgiveness is as much about freeing yourself from the drama. Also, who gets to demand a confession of guilt or wrongness? That's on Al, not on us. Expecting it will do you more damage than him.

Or... maybe a Go-Fund-Me to send you over to Winton to "learn how to ride a bike", taught by the master?
 
IT's not about forgiveness in this case, that was an analogy because you can't be forgiven for sins you don't confess to. MEANING: You can't deny the sin and be forgiven for it at the same time. You have to own it, before you can be forgiven

In this case, It's about the relationship between moving forward and admitting he was WRONG..... He has to own his mistake by admitting he's wrong, and then no one gives a crap because we're agreeing on the physics involved, and we're no longer going to receive ongoing lectures from him on shit that he's clearly wrong about..... but we all know that he's not going to give up and admit he's wrong, because that blows his whole "expert racer status" which also keeps him from even examining his comments and their relationship to the known physics...

The ironic thing is that all of the actual experts here would admit they were wrong in a heartbeat if they were proved wrong about something. Am I sick of this ? of course... The old saying applies, There is no graceful dismount from a high horse...
 
Last edited:
Maybe and this is a big maybe, he just likes to sh it stir the pot and we all fall into it, well done on Al's part as he has nothing better to do, better to get out on the bike but he no longer does that and hasn't done any riding for a very long time and when he was riding his bike wasn't very often with lots of long breaks in between, most experience riders live to ride and spend a lot of time on their bikes, so we all know where Al is when riding all the time, he doesn't, just watches too much YouTube, an arm chair expert, they are the worst ones they know everything, not.
I am no expert but I do know my own Norton and have set it up perfect for my riding style, I never tell anyone else how to set their bikes up, but I am always happy to tell other how or what I have done to mine if they are interested, I will also tell what parts/upgrades I have done in 48+ years of ownership that works for me and my bike, but I don't tell other what to do.
Al just has nothing better too do with his time and in a way I feel for him not being able to ride no more and there comes a time we all will have that problem and hopefully not become an arm chair expert and no matter what Al believes in everything he says, that's the scientist in him and how many times has science has got it wrong.
I not going to say no more, time Al gave his bike to someone who will make it even better than just a bitsa thrown together from muti bikes and bits.

Ashley
 
Serious question Al
Why do you keep saying that Peter Williams had anything to do with the design of the first commando?
Over and over again you have been told he did not
Why do you keep repeating it?
And still no response ,which is the usual response
Luckily I wasn't holding my breath!
 
As I understand it, Peter Williams was working for Norton when the first Commandos were produced and he specified the steering geometry. It was 'race' steering, probably similar to Tom Arter's 'Wagon Wheels', a Seeley 7R AJS, which he had raced. When the kids started riding the first Commandos. a few got chucked up the road, apparently usually after riding over the 'cat's eyes' reflectors. Commandos did not have steering dampers. The fork yokes were changed for the next model and probably has less trail. Peter Williams was embarrassed, about the bikes crashing. However I suggest he probably had the geometry correct. A steering damper on a Commando might have made the bike look as though it did not handle.
Peter Williams' story is on the web somewhere. READ IT !
 
I have told you what my bike did the last time it raced. It should not be able to do that. I have told you the set-up. What you do with the information is YOUR business
 
1. Peter Williams WAS NOT working for Norton, the first Commando he saw was at the Earls Court Show, along with the rest of the public. (from Peter himself, not just some "I think" BS )
2. The Arter Matchless (Wagon Wheels) WAS NOT a Seeley Frame , nor was it a 7R

No "I suggest" "rumour has it" BS , just facts.

You could read Peters book, but I guess as it's not on YouTube that won't happen either

Peter Williams' story is on the web somewhere. READ IT ! Maybe do some research for yourself!
 
As I understand it, Peter Williams was working for Norton when the first Commandos were produced and he specified the steering geometry. It was 'race' steering, probably similar to Tom Arter's 'Wagon Wheels', a Seeley 7R AJS, which he had raced. When the kids started riding the first Commandos. a few got chucked up the road, apparently usually after riding over the 'cat's eyes' reflectors. Commandos did not have steering dampers. The fork yokes were changed for the next model and probably has less trail. Peter Williams was embarrassed, about the bikes crashing. However I suggest he probably had the geometry correct. A steering damper on a Commando might have made the bike look as though it did not handle.
Peter Williams' story is on the web somewhere. READ IT !
Repeating the same wrong information over and over dosent make it true Al
 
Back
Top