Set the Pazon on the back distributor

pierodn

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Nov 10, 2012
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Hi.
Time ago Les replayed to me but, sorry, i forget and i dont find that topic.
Is my first set of the Pazon on the rear distributor.
On Commando i set the red point on the trigger on the anticlockwise hole of the plate.
But the distributor cam turns backward compared to Commando.
So i think the set must be clockwise, the red point on the trigger should be alineed with the clockwise hole of the plate.
Please, i need your advices.
Thanks.
Piero
 
Piero, The Pazon instructions are quite clear that the red dot must be lined up through a different hole for clockwise or anticlockwise, simply rotate the engine and see which way the rotor in the distributor moves. I must warn you that on my G15 I used an electronic system (Boyer) that I took off another of my bikes (working perfectly) but some of the solder on the plate touched the rotor and I ended up having to make a gasket for the plate to get sufficient space for clearance. I think the distance between the taper shaft and the body of the distributor is a little different to the space in the later cam-shaft driven points position.
 
Hi Dave.
I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.
The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.
?????
Thank you.
Pieto
 
pierodn said:
I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.
Click to expand...

This depends on the position left or right that you look at it.

When you set ignition the timing for the 20M3 'distributor' (points housing) you are looking at it from the LEFT-HAND side of the bike, therefore the distributor sprocket and cam both turn clockwise as you look at it (although you can't actually see the distributor sprocket) so you set it for clockwise rotation.



pierodn said:
The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.
Click to expand...

When you set the 'S' type assembly, you are viewing it from the RIGHT-HAND side, therefore, the cam and points cam (or electronic ignition rotor) both rotate anticlockwise (for a Norton but not a Triumph twin) as you look at it, so you set it for anticlockwise rotation.
 
L.A.B. said:
pierodn said:
I understand but the question remains.
The distributor sprocket turns clockwise but the distributor cam turns anticlockwise.
Click to expand...

This depends on the position left or right that you look at it.

When you set ignition the timing for the 20M3 'distributor' (points housing) you are looking at it from the LEFT-HAND side of the bike, therefore the distributor sprocket and cam both turn clockwise as you look at it (although you can't actually see the distributor sprocket) so you set it for clockwise rotation.



pierodn said:
The Commando S Point cam turns clockwise and you set anticlockwise.
I think that the set should be clockwise.
Click to expand...

When you set the 'S' type assembly, you are viewing it from the RIGHT-HAND side, therefore, the cam and points cam (or electronic ignition rotor) both rotate anticlockwise (for a Norton but not a Triumph twin) as you look at it, so you set it for anticlockwise rotation.
Click to expand...

Hi Les,
Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.
Click to expand...

To retard, turn the plate in the same direction as the electronic rotor (or AAU) rotation, so for the rear 'distributor' housing when looking at it from the left side, turn the plate clockwise to retard.
 
L.A.B. said:
pierodn said:
Please, i need to retard the timing.
But i cannot use strobo light.
For retard the timing i must rotate the electronic plate (in the rear distributor whit the trigger firm) clock or anticlock wise?.
Click to expand...

To retard, turn the plate in the same direction as the electronic rotor (or AAU) rotation, so for the rear 'distributor' housing when looking at it from the left side, turn the plate clockwise to retard.
Click to expand...

Hi Les.
Sorry, but the electronic rotor (trigger) seems to me that turns anticlockwise and the sprocket clockwise.
Thanks or helping me.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Sorry, but the electronic rotor (trigger) seems to me that turns anticlockwise and the sprocket clockwise.
Click to expand...

That would be impossible. The sprocket and rotor are at opposite ends of the same shaft so they cannot rotate in opposite directions.

Use the kickstart and observe the rotor rotation.
 
Hi Les.
Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.
Thank you so much.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.
Click to expand...


Both must rotate in the same direction when viewed from the left, which is clockwise, unless you are thinking of the sprocket looking from the right-hand side? :?
 
L.A.B. said:
pierodn said:
Sorry, i was in great wrong.
Trigger clock, and sprocket anticlock.
Click to expand...


Both must rotate in the same direction when viewed from the left, which is clockwise, unless you are thinking of the sprocket looking from the right-hand side? :?
Click to expand...

Hi Les,
yes, both clockwise from the left viewue.
The problem is that with 20M3S i set the Pazon at 31degree static and then i use the strobolight (5.000 rpm i find about 47/48 degree) to reset 31degree at 5.000 rpm.
Is very easy with the degree scale on the outer primary cover.
But the P11 doesnt have the degree scale and is not easy with a degree wheel without cover.
I have setted the P11 timing at 31 degree static.
The bike started well with a strong compression but not chick back.
Then, after your advices, i have rotate clockwise, a little bit, the ignition plate with the trigger hold in place.
The bike starts well but i cannot feel any differences.
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
The problem is that with 20M3S i set the Pazon at 31degree static and then i use the strobolight (5.000 rpm i find about 47/48 degree) to reset 31degree at 5.000 rpm.
Is very easy with the degree scale on the outer primary cover.
But the P11 doesnt have the degree scale and is not easy with a degree wheel without cover.
Click to expand...

As you don't have a timing scale then one answer is to use a degree disc (and piston stop to find TDC) and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.



pierodn said:
I have setted the P11 timing at 31 degree static.
The bike started well with a strong compression but not chick back.
Click to expand...

So what made you think it needed retarding?


pierodn said:
Then, after your advices, i have rotate clockwise, a little bit, the ignition plate with the trigger hold in place.
The bike starts well but i cannot feel any differences.
Click to expand...

"A little bit" may not be enough to notice, however, unless you know the accuracy of your starting point you don't know whether you are moving the plate it the right direction or not or if it needed to be moved at all.
 
.[/quote]As you don't have a timing scale then one answer is to use a degree disc (and piston stop to find TDC) and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks. .[/quote]

Hi Les,
Please, what does it mean "to find TDC" and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.
The 31 degree timing marks is not to BTDC?.
I usually start from TDC (right in/ex valves full closed) and then i turn backward of 31degree and set the trigger point into the hole of the plate.
Let me undertand better.
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
Please, what does it mean "to find TDC" and then make your own (31 degree) timing marks.
The 31 degree timing marks is not to BTDC?.
Click to expand...

If there is no timing scale then to find 31 degrees BTDC you must first find TDC.



pierodn said:
I usually start from TDC (right in/ex valves full closed)
Click to expand...

Yes, but what method do you use to accurately find TDC?


pierodn said:
and then i turn backward of 31degree and set the trigger point into the hole of the plate.
Click to expand...


How can you be sure your 31 degree TDC setting is accurate unless your starting point (TDC) is known to be accurate?

Setting electronic ignitions statically by lining up a dot of paint with a hole is not totally accurate, and that is why electronic ignition manufacturers normally recommend the final timing check is done with a strobe.
 
The problem with dynamic timing on a hybrid is you can't access the rotor.

The trick is to accurately find TDC then do a static timing. Once running, one can only adjust by sound, then monitor engine temp (hotter means more retarded, in general)

Please chime in, anybody, if there's a better way
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, but what method do you use to accurately find TDC?
How can you be sure your 31 degree TDC setting is accurate unless your starting point (TDC) is known to be accurate?.
Click to expand...

Hi Les.
To find the TDC i use the comparator into the spark plug hole.
Please, can you explain a better method.
Thank you.
Piero
 
BillT said:
The problem with dynamic timing on a hybrid is you can't access the rotor.

The trick is to accurately find TDC then do a static timing. Once running, one can only adjust by sound, then monitor engine temp (hotter means more retarded, in general)

Please chime in, anybody, if there's a better way
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,
I thought to use one body of a broken tachometer drive gearbox to fit the degree scale on the cam/rev counter cam nut for use the strobo light.
It might work?
Thank you.
Piero
 
pierodn said:
To find the TDC i use the comparator into the spark plug hole.
Click to expand...

I assume by "comparator" you mean a dial gauge or 'TDC tool' (below).

Set the Pazon on the back distributor


pierodn said:
Please, can you explain a better method.
Click to expand...

A more accurate method is to use a degree wheel and 'piston stop': http://www.doov.com/apps/nortoncompanio ... &Itemid=10


pierodn said:
I thought to use one body of a broken tachometer drive gearbox to fit the degree scale on the cam/rev counter cam nut for use the strobo light.
It might work?
Click to expand...

It could work.
 
Hi Les.
I have used the dial gauge and the TDC tool.
Sorry, I have read carefully "Companio" but I did not understand much, too hard.
Do you think that with the dial gauge the TDC find is not much accurate?
And what do you think about to fit the degree wheel on the cam right side?
Thank you.
Piero
 
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