Rocker arms - sorry guys something to worry about

TonyA · Feb 3, 2023

cliffa said:
unbelievable, I wonder if @Clive has checked his?

Yes , a good idea to check . I have a set of Thiel improved Norton 961 rockers not yet installed . I will take photos and post ASAP on this thread .

concours · Feb 3, 2023

worntorn said:
I agree with Stu on this.
The Modern Triumphs you mention are a great example.
All of the Daytona 955s were built in England. In general they are great bikes capable of very high mileage.
Same with the Triumph twins built in Thailand.
With uniform excellent QC it doesn't matter where the factory is located.

Glen

I respectfully DISagree. I will provide proof why I say that. Busy working now.
Stand by.

JMWO

concours · Feb 3, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
Unfortunately just being old enough to proclaim 45 years as a qualification, doesn't make you right. But if looking through rose tinted specs helps you sleep better at night, fair play to you.

Here are some roses for your review.

Brakes? Ahhh, who needs 'em.

concours · Feb 3, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
Unfortunately just being old enough to proclaim 45 years as a qualification, doesn't make you right. But if looking through rose tinted specs helps you sleep better at night, fair play to you.

Fascinating

that you focus only on the timeline (45yrs) and use it to completely discount my experience relevant to the parts being discussed.

.

Stu Bodycote · Feb 3, 2023

45 years was the only qualification you submitted, as though it was a be all and end all to a discussion.
Failing to see your arguments angle with the Triumph branded calipers. IIRC Triumph branded calipers are manufactured by Nissin, a Japanese company with manufacturing facilities in Japan, China, Thailand and America. Unless there's more to the picture than I'm initially seeing?
Also fascinating that you completely discount my experience of the 961's...with this being the first issue that Ive come across of its kind.
The brunt of it is, and what many struggle to come to terms with, is that China and Taiwan are the global leaders in manufacturing. This is why most major companies outsource to them. Over 25% of everything made in the world apparently is from China. Seems half the SnapOn van is made in China nowadays. My carbon Bell Racestar helmet...made in China. My aforementioned Milwaukee tools, that I use daily and have done for many years....made in p.r.c. (Peoples Republic of China....for those that dont know). They will make your product to the standard that you demand and are willing to pay for. The country of origin has sod all to do with it. Quality is not dictated by a flag, but money.
In 2018 Morton did employee a dedicated QC guy. Poor bloke. He tried his best with the tools provided....but quite often his quarantine room would became the second stores, when parts and money were low. He was a very frustrated chap, and quite rightly so.

concours · Feb 3, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
45 years was the only qualification you submitted, as though it was a be all and end all to a discussion.
Failing to see your arguments angle with the Triumph branded calipers. IIRC Triumph branded calipers are manufactured by Nissin, a Japanese company with manufacturing facilities in Japan, China, Thailand and America.
Also fascinating that you completely discount my experience of the 961's...with this being the first issue that Ive come across of its kind.

I have nothing further.

Carry on.

Rocker arms - sorry guys something to worry about

Fast Eddie · Feb 3, 2023

I have always thought that a very, very strange design for an oil feed, ie up through the pushrods, via two unsealed joints, then through the rocker shafts, to feed the rocker spindles, just seems backwards thinking to me.

I know Kenny Dreer leaned heavily on US V8 automotive technology, is this oil routing idea common in that world ?

Stu Bodycote · Feb 3, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
I have always thought that a very, very strange design for an oil feed, ie up through the pushrods, via two unsealed joints, then through the rocker shafts, to feed the rocker spindles, just seems backwards thinking to me.

I know Kenny Dreer leaned heavily on US V8 automotive technology, is this oil routing idea common in that world ?

Suppose it's less complicated than trying to feed four rocker shafts individually via oil galleries? But yeah, doesn't sound a great design on paper.

BritTwit · Feb 3, 2023

Pumping from the lifter is an "advantage" to the hydraulic lifter design.
Oil is pumped by the lifter into P-Rod to the cup of the rocker, the through to the rocker bush or bearing.
Very popular in classic V8s using roller lifters / roller cams.
When it works, it's sweet and simple.

concours · Feb 3, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
I have always thought that a very, very strange design for an oil feed, ie up through the pushrods, via two unsealed joints, then through the rocker shafts, to feed the rocker spindles, just seems backwards thinking to me.

I know Kenny Dreer leaned heavily on US V8 automotive technology, is this oil routing idea common in that world ?

Yes.

peebee · Feb 3, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
45 years was the only qualification you submitted, as though it was a be all and end all to a discussion.
Failing to see your arguments angle with the Triumph branded calipers. IIRC Triumph branded calipers are manufactured by Nissin, a Japanese company with manufacturing facilities in Japan, China, Thailand and America. Unless there's more to the picture than I'm initially seeing?
Also fascinating that you completely discount my experience of the 961's...with this being the first issue that Ive come across of its kind.
The brunt of it is, and what many struggle to come to terms with, is that China and Taiwan are the global leaders in manufacturing. This is why most major companies outsource to them. Over 25% of everything made in the world apparently is from China. Seems half the SnapOn van is made in China nowadays. My carbon Bell Racestar helmet...made in China. My aforementioned Milwaukee tools, that I use daily and have done for many years....made in p.r.c. (Peoples Republic of China....for those that dont know). They will make your product to the standard that you demand and are willing to pay for. The country of origin has sod all to do with it. Quality is not dictated by a flag, but money.
In 2018 Morton did employee a dedicated QC guy. Poor bloke. He tried his best with the tools provided....but quite often his quarantine room would became the second stores, when parts and money were low. He was a very frustrated chap, and quite rightly so.

Who's this Morton guy?.

City Garage · Feb 3, 2023

Stu Bodycote said:
45 years was the only qualification you submitted, as though it was a be all and end all to a discussion.
Failing to see your arguments angle with the Triumph branded calipers. IIRC Triumph branded calipers are manufactured by Nissin, a Japanese company with manufacturing facilities in Japan, China, Thailand and America. Unless there's more to the picture than I'm initially seeing?
Also fascinating that you completely discount my experience of the 961's...with this being the first issue that Ive come across of its kind.
The brunt of it is, and what many struggle to come to terms with, is that China and Taiwan are the global leaders in manufacturing. This is why most major companies outsource to them. Over 25% of everything made in the world apparently is from China. Seems half the SnapOn van is made in China nowadays. My carbon Bell Racestar helmet...made in China. My aforementioned Milwaukee tools, that I use daily and have done for many years....made in p.r.c. (Peoples Republic of China....for those that dont know). They will make your product to the standard that you demand and are willing to pay for. The country of origin has sod all to do with it. Quality is not dictated by a flag, but money.
In 2018 Morton did employee a dedicated QC guy. Poor bloke. He tried his best with the tools provided....but quite often his quarantine room would became the second stores, when parts and money were low. He was a very frustrated chap, and quite rightly so.

Stu don't feed the trolls. After 45 years the highlight of his life is to come on the 961 forum to show what a great armchair captain of industry he is. I'm sure he buys his bolts from Alibaba just like our other friends.

City Garage · Feb 3, 2023

TonyA said:
Yes , a good idea to check . I have a set of Thiel improved Norton 961 rockers not yet installed . I will take photos and post ASAP on this thread .

Use some high-quality assembly lube before installation. Or soak in oil in a plastic bag. With the low rpm oil pressure its takes a bit for full lubrication.

Stu Bodycote · Feb 3, 2023

City Garage said:
Stu don't feed the trolls. After 45 years the highlight of his life is to come on the 961 forum to show what a great armchair captain of industry he is. I'm sure he buys his bolts from Alibaba just like our other friends.

I cant help it...I'm easily drawn in. A bit like walking home from the pub, full of Stella, finding a stray cat and thinking I can enlighten its life

Stu Bodycote · Feb 3, 2023

peebee said:
Who's this Morton guy?.

Sorry, sausage fingers

MarkMk3 · Feb 3, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
I have always thought that a very, very strange design for an oil feed, ie up through the pushrods, via two unsealed joints, then through the rocker shafts, to feed the rocker spindles, just seems backwards thinking to me.

I know Kenny Dreer leaned heavily on US V8 automotive technology, is this oil routing idea common in that world ?

Chevrolet V8 have been using it since the 50's. Still using it today as do other manufacturers.

TonyA · Feb 3, 2023

MarkMk3 said:
Chevrolet V8 have been using it since the 50's. Still using it today as do other manufacturers.

Harley Davidson

TonyA · Feb 3, 2023

TonyA said:
Yes , a good idea to check . I have a set of Thiel improved Norton 961 rockers not yet installed . I will take photos and post ASAP on this thread .

All 4 rocker arms are just fine . Another great Norton 961 product from Thiel Motorsports !

Gojuu · Feb 3, 2023

concours said:
"Well, no. What's failing here is QC."

Well, no.
45 years in metal trades, manufacturing says "QC" is a hollow buzzword for failing to design a process where quality is designed in.

Sorry if reality doesn't fit the mold people have been conditioned to accept.

JMWO

I love it when people realize they know everything and can stop learning.

Fast Eddie · Feb 3, 2023

TonyA said:
Harley Davidson

Interesting. With all those V8s and HD motors out there, there must be a HUGE number running very nicely with this oil routing method, so it’s clearly a perfectly good method.