Road Racing a Norton Commando

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The UK rules have an earlier cut off date for 2 strokes. Simple. 750 Kawasakis don't race against British twins, and Yamaha two strokes don't race against Ducati singles.

When I raced in the UK it was the riders who voted on the rules each year. They were not determined by the governing body as they are here in Australia.
 
Trying to establish class equivalency between wildly disparate types is a true test of compromise, and typically results in some happy / some sad.

RD400 vs CB750 can be good close racing at the finish line on a tight twisty track, or a big laugh on a long track with not much tight stuff.

In AHRMA, the membership can submit rules proposals every year; but only the "ruling class" get to vote on them.
 
grandpaul said:
There may be no 74 PR, but you could use a 74 Commando, install similar hardware to the PR, and it would be legal under the current rules.

Believe me, I asked the technical ref at the time, Will Harding.
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So can you then slot in a Steve Maney 1007cc rocket engine, since they look about the same....
 
Not in a production class I would think,unless you could prove that they only offered a reliability and not performance enhancement.
Of course if the engine rpms could be raised safely because of a more rigid engine case or crankshaft then that might be deemed an unfair advantage.
Lets not mention all the fake Manx's that have little in common with the original items.
Acotrel you need to ride a Kawasaki H2. :lol:
 
acotrel said:
...Too many rules buggers racing...
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Couldn't agree more. Look at F1 these days. Bring back CanAm I say. And let's have a bike equivalent of it.
 
davamb said:
acotrel said:
...Too many rules buggers racing...
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more. Look at F1 these days. Bring back CanAm I say. And let's have a bike equivalent of it.
Click to expand...

You need to retain the 'rules that keep out bikes like the Kawasaki Z1,H2 and Desmo Ducati twins,we don't want a repeat of what happened in the day. :lol:
Don't get me started on those evil TZ700's and 750's or any other stinky two stroke. :wink:
 
Rohan said:
grandpaul said:
There may be no 74 PR, but you could use a 74 Commando, install similar hardware to the PR, and it would be legal under the current rules.

Believe me, I asked the technical ref at the time, Will Harding.
Click to expand...

So can you then slot in a Steve Maney 1007cc rocket engine, since they look about the same....
Click to expand...

No, rules require OEM cylinders, but can be overbored within limits.
 
Time Warp, I suggest we spend too much time thinking about what should be excluded from races when we should be trying to attract entries - more participation. My feeling is that there are only three types of racing solo motorcycles:

Four cylinder four stroke and twin cylinder watercooled - Superbikes.
Two stroke and small four cylinder four stroke - GP bikes.
Aircooled four stroke two valve singles twins and triples - Thunderbikes .

Once you make that distinction based on technology differences, it is easy to visualize the three groups racing separately in capacity classes. Wen you try to mix the grid and involve all the different technologies, you end up with the current plethora of rules, which is simply a great big turn-off.
We should be able to race our old commandos against modern aircooled engined Ducatis - at least then the races would sound right. Fast and slow heats for the three groups might be a good idea too ?

I love racing two strokes, however only in races against other two strokes. When I race my Norton, I hate to see a two stroke or four cylinder superbike on the grid beside me - it usually means I have wasted my money getting there . I don't care what you have done to your Norton twin, a good methanol fuelled 250cc two stroke would probably beat it - why would anyone bother finding out ?
 
bwolfie said:
All of a sudden swoosh's bike makes sense :shock:
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That is actually true. My brother got all the racing parts with the specific plan to go racing. A calculation of the cost to go racing persuaded him to do elsewise. Funny how no one has mentioned that yet...
 
swooshdave said:
That is actually true. My brother got all the racing parts with the specific plan to go racing. A calculation of the cost to go racing persuaded him to do elsewise. Funny how no one has mentioned that yet...
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It's well known that road racers quit when they've spent all their money, and motocrossers quit when they've broken all their bones :)
 
pommie john said:
It's well known that road racers quit when they've spent all their money, and motocrossers quit when they've broken all their bones :)
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Thats both the funniest and saddest quote we've seen here for a long time !
One to add to the book of quotes...
 
A few years ago I won a race with a friend's Suzuki Cobra. It had no brakes after the first lap, so I was getting into corners too fast and climbing off it a bit to get around. I slipped under one guy and almost knocked him off his bike. However the main thing was that I had to stay well forward to make it feel alright . The cobra's weight bias seemed very strange to me. In any of my own bikes, I always have the motor as far forward as reasonably possible. My old 500cc Triton had the motor too far back when I bought it. Moving it forward one half of an inch made an appreciable difference.
 
Time Warp said:
davamb said:
acotrel said:
...Too many rules buggers racing...
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more. Look at F1 these days. Bring back CanAm I say. And let's have a bike equivalent of it.
Click to expand...

You need to retain the 'rules that keep out bikes like the Kawasaki Z1,H2 and Desmo Ducati twins,we don't want a repeat of what happened in the day. :lol:
Don't get me started on those evil TZ700's and 750's or any other stinky two stroke. :wink:
Click to expand...

I race with WMRRA in the Seattle area where a tenacious few campaign big vintage bikes: typically there are 3 to 6 bikes on the grid. OMRRA operates 150 miles to the south in Portland and there the big vintage bike class has all but died out. Until recently both WMRRA and OMRRA had traditional vintage classes: pre '73 and 750cc capacity limit (I think OMRRA may have been "Open" i.e. no capacity limit). Now, no doubt in an attempt to get more bikes on their grids OMRRA have replaced their Open Vintage with the following classes: -

C) Spirit of the 70s consists of motorcycles with a maximum model year 1976, AIR-COOLED motors, with treaded tires.

· Four-stroke OHC twins to 650cc. Examples: Yamaha XS650 and Kawasaki KZ650.
· Four-stroke pushrod twins to 900cc. Examples: Triumph Bonneville, Norton 850 Commando, BMW R90.
· Four-stroke OHC multis to 550cc. Example: Honda CB550.
· Two-strokes to 500cc. Examples: Yamaha RD350 and 400, Kawasaki H1 and S3, Suzuki GT500.

D) Vintage Superbike consists of street-based pre-1983 four-stroke four-cylinder motorcycles, pre-1986 two-stroke motorcycles, and four-stroke twin-cylinder motorcycles with displacement restriction, but without age restriction, all with treaded tires.

· Four-stroke Desmo AIR-COOLED two-valve twins to 750cc. No age restriction. Examples: Ducati 750 Monster and Supersport.
· Four-stroke OHC AIR-COOLED twins to 900cc. No age restriction. Examples: Triumph Thruxton 900.
· Four-stroke pushrod AIR-COOLED twins to 1200cc. No age restriction. Examples: BMW R1200S, Harley Davidson XR1200, and Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport. Buell over 1000cc excluded.
· Four-stroke four-cylinder AIR-COOLED machines to 1025cc with maximum model year 1982. Examples: Suzuki GS1000 and Kawasaki KZ1000.
· Two-stroke AIR or WATER-COOLED machines to 750cc with maximum model year 1985. Examples: Kawasaki H2 and Yamaha RZ350.

I like classes that mix different types of bike and as time goes by, surely, we can't expect to race just with bikes that are close contemporaries of our own?
 
ggryder said:
I race with WMRRA in the Seattle area where a tenacious few campaign big vintage bikes: typically there are 3 to 6 bikes on the grid. OMRRA operates 150 miles to the south in Portland and there the big vintage bike class has all but died out. Until recently both WMRRA and OMRRA had traditional vintage classes: pre '73 and 750cc capacity limit (I think OMRRA may have been "Open" i.e. no capacity limit). Now, no doubt in an attempt to get more bikes on their grids OMRRA have replaced their Open Vintage with the following classes: -

C) Spirit of the 70s consists of motorcycles with a maximum model year 1976, AIR-COOLED motors, with treaded tires.

· Four-stroke OHC twins to 650cc. Examples: Yamaha XS650 and Kawasaki KZ650.
· Four-stroke pushrod twins to 900cc. Examples: Triumph Bonneville, Norton 850 Commando, BMW R90.
· Four-stroke OHC multis to 550cc. Example: Honda CB550.
· Two-strokes to 500cc. Examples: Yamaha RD350 and 400, Kawasaki H1 and S3, Suzuki GT500.

D) Vintage Superbike consists of street-based pre-1983 four-stroke four-cylinder motorcycles, pre-1986 two-stroke motorcycles, and four-stroke twin-cylinder motorcycles with displacement restriction, but without age restriction, all with treaded tires.

· Four-stroke Desmo AIR-COOLED two-valve twins to 750cc. No age restriction. Examples: Ducati 750 Monster and Supersport.
· Four-stroke OHC AIR-COOLED twins to 900cc. No age restriction. Examples: Triumph Thruxton 900.
· Four-stroke pushrod AIR-COOLED twins to 1200cc. No age restriction. Examples: BMW R1200S, Harley Davidson XR1200, and Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport. Buell over 1000cc excluded.
· Four-stroke four-cylinder AIR-COOLED machines to 1025cc with maximum model year 1982. Examples: Suzuki GS1000 and Kawasaki KZ1000.
· Two-stroke AIR or WATER-COOLED machines to 750cc with maximum model year 1985. Examples: Kawasaki H2 and Yamaha RZ350.

I like classes that mix different types of bike and as time goes by, surely, we can't expect to race just with bikes that are close contemporaries of our own?
Click to expand...

When Mid-O got handed over to WERA a few years back after the AMA-AHRMA split, they devised a composite class structure for all of the various sanctioning bodies to accommodate as best as possible all of the wide variety of bikes & classes. Not sure if they've had much need of that extensive composite classification, judging by the scant grids...

I like the above mentioned structure, but there isn't much point of trying to field a Triumph 650 against Norton 850s and BMW R90s. I would suggest a lightweight and heavyweight split...
 
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