rebuild sequence advice...PLEH

hello all.......I started a basic rear swing arm spindle and bush replacement about 2 months back.......one thing led to another and it's turned into a "all major components" removed for a refurb.
I took plenty of pictures of the build down, then had a mishap with my photo library and lost a lot of the photos....

what I need help with is starting with a basic re-assemble of the majors...then any specifics, hints or tips on procedure.

Here is were I am at the moment....

the following is all sitting whole on the bench ready for the build...

engine (complete bottom and top end)
gearbox
primary side with clutch
iso's (new iso system is Mick Hemming's conversion)
cradle
swing arm
oil tank and filter system
battery box
rear wheel
rear fender (mud guard)

what I am asking is the following...

order of re-assemble with all the experience of the great members of the Jerry Doe Norton Commando forum

I can get started with something like

front iso...engine....rear iso....cradle....swing arm.....gearbox

you get the idea...


thanks in advance..

Eric

I would put the rear isolastic/swingarm assembly in the frame, then the gearbox and then engine bottom end at least. The gearbox cannot go in easily once the engine is in place and would require slackening the rear engine mounts and moving the whole thing forward a bit. The whole assembly doesn't work well as a rolling chassis without the engine in place to prevent the rear iso assembly pivoting around and being very unstable. I think once you have these core bits together the subsequent assembly order is fairly flexible.

Dave,

Is that one of the bikes with the buried horn? It would seem that one would want to test the horn and fit it early.

Cookie said:

Dave,

Is that one of the bikes with the buried horn? It would seem that one would want to test the horn and fit it early.

Click to expand...

yes, the horn is behind the rear mudguard.

Eric

Ah, the horn. Sits under the battery box. Removal and replacement is best done with fender and rear wheel removed. Been in there many times since the wire leads don't like to stay connected (something about vibration).

Another way for subassemblies is to get the engine/gearbox together with the isolastic front and rear mounts, then offer the unit into the frame - primary unit later. Cylinder and head not necessarily attached, but if you can lift the whole unit it's easier to assembly cylinder and head while the engine is out of the frame. Next attach the swing arm.

David

still need some insight on this issue..I was looking at Coco's mkIII rebuild and it looks like the cradle/swing arm assembly went in first with the rear iso installed in the cradle first.

any ideas?

Eric

Commando74 said:

still need some insight on this issue..I was looking at Coco's mkIII rebuild and it looks like the cradle/swing arm assembly went in first with the rear iso installed in the cradle first.

any ideas?

Eric

Click to expand...

He may have to pull it back out to put the tranny?

Mr. 74,

I'll preface my comments with the statement that I really love the Commando. However, during the rebuild of my bike, I found the frame, engine and rear assembly to be a major PITA. My approach, however faulty, was to attache the frame with the rear assembly via the shocks and rear iso. Then I added the front suspension and both shod wheels ( I did this with the assembly on it's side - the natural state of rest for a motorcycle I may add). I then installed the gearbox so that I had a complete rolling chassis that regrettably hinged in the middle (without the engine). As I recall, I set the (hinged) chassis upright and supported it underneath with a scissors jack (adequately padded) and had a neighbor help me wrestle the engine assembly into the frame ( it is indeed one heavy bastard). Once loosely installed, I gently lowered the jack and installed the front ISO. At that point, the bike actually stood on it's own. The rest is typical of any other proper English motorcycle as you add the miscellaneous bits. Hope this helps in some perverse way.

Having Been There, Done That within the last few weeks on a '74 MKII I'll give you my notes on the subject... It depends somewhat on how many people will be working. I assume you'll have some assistance with the heavy stuff. Doing it all yourself may alter the order of assembly.

Paint everything while it's all apart. Trust me on that. An air brush with gloss black urethane works wonders. If you're like me, you'l never want to take it this far apart again.

I had no reason to remove the battery box or oil tank, so I assume they're installed first.

Do the rear iso upgrade and hang the cradle in the frame, swinging arm attached. Attach the shocks for some stability.

Horn and oil filter with hoses are next. Then the rear chain and guard (a real PITA to do if the fender is on).

Add the gearbox, it's a whole lot easier to do without the motor in the way. If the sprocket is removed you'll need to wait 'till the rear chain and brake assembly are in before tightening it. But before attaching the primary (duh). A functional rear brake is required for primary side assembly so fit the brake hub and axle. Don't need the rear wheel yet.

Next, Crankcases without front iso unit. Best to have help here, but you can do it yourself if you use wooden planks under the motor. I did mine without the cylinders attached, as it's lighter.

Front iso mount.

From there you have the engine and gearbox mounted, so the rest is cake. Be aware however that the the rear fender hangs from the battery box and you may want the box with its slotted attachment points secured to the rear iso shaft before mounting the fender.

anyone else want to chime in here with any tips or tricks?

it's looking like the engine goes in last?

here's where I am now..roughly...the oil tank and battery box also out.



Eric

I'm trying to change the front sprocket on my 69 Norton and I'm having a Hell of a time removing the nut holding the sprocket on. I removed the keeper washer with the screw, but I can't seem to budge the nut. Is this a left hand thread?
Also any suggestions on how to hold the clutch basket while tightening the nut on it. I lost one of the three bolts going into the engine from the primary (whoever rebuilt it didn't use the tab washers on the bolts) and it went thru the chain and derailed the chain by one row. So I ordered a new primary chain from Baxter and in the process noticed that my front sprocket was worn, so I ordered a new front and rear sprocket and chain, but now I can't get the front sprocket off.
THX

69750S — the large nut retaining the gearbox sprocket is indeed a left hand thread. First, do you have enough leverage with the tool you're using? Ideally, you need a pipe spanner or a 3/4 " drive deep socket. I have a length of old chain I wrap around the sprocket and grip it with a vise grips, then jam it against something sturdy, protecting the frame with sufficient padding. You will find a way to do it. You could also use a length of brass rod and a hammer, hitting the flat of the nut. Brass is softer that steel, so it should not damage it. Sometimes that is enough to get it loosened initially. You could try the 'heat spanner' which breaks down any Loctite, but don't do it for too long. I try to avoid heat and naked flame unless things are out on the bench. Otherwise, you could sacrifice the nut and use the barbarian hammer and chisel method! It works very well, and you just replace the nut (or re-use it — no-one will know except you! )

I use a chain wrench (very like a vise grips but with a length of chain attached to one end) to hold the clutch centre (I assume you mean the centre and not the basket). You can just get the chain to grip the centre, at a slight angle of course, but it works for me. It's also way cheaper than the factory tool. If your centre is not hardened, you could wrap some aluminium sheeting or copper shimstock around it and then hold it with the chain wrench. The clutch centre nut is a conventional R/H thread. Reverse procedure when reassembling, remembering not to tighten the nut too much to protect the circlip behind the clutch centre.

Dave

Commando74 said:

still need some insight on this issue..I was looking at Coco's mkIII rebuild and it looks like the cradle/swing arm assembly went in first with the rear iso installed in the cradle first.

any ideas?

Eric

Click to expand...

That's exactly how I did it. Not sure if it was the right way or not but I do tend to like doing things the hard way. I had the frame up on my workbench and If I was about 3 inches taller, my life would have been way easier. Lifting a heavy engine and trying to swing it into place whilst on your tip toes is a hard thing to do. I think I still have marks from the main shaft sticking into my stomach.

There is also an article in Classic Bike from a few years ago where Mick Hemmings builds a Comamndo in 2 days. The article spans over two issues. That helped me with a sequence and a basic guideline.

The way I did it was to bolt the trans into the cradle and then the motor and lay that on a piece of rug on the ground and lower the frame over that. But my frame was bare at the time so that made it a bit nicer this way. But the frame weighs far less than the motor and trans in the cradle, Then I was able to put the stud thru the rear iso and then attach the front iso. After this was done it was easy to stand the bike up and lift onto the jack stand. This was done with my wife helping so I used this technique as someone here told me it was an easy way to do it, Good luck and be sure to wrap the bike with something to protect from dinging while doing it. More than one way to skin a cat.

A cask of Amontillado...

I know that the horn has been mentioned, even underscored, but I had mine in, fender in place, wheels on, rear brake hydraulics working (to tighten the counter shaft sprocket nut) when my grandson jerked the horn wires and pulled one off its spade.

For two days I looked at the empty spade, I could see it, almost touch it... I tried all manner of ways and contortions to get the female connector in place, but nothing worked, I even had the offending grandson (very small hands) try to re-orient the wire, no luck!!!!!!!!!!

When I finally got the horn out I decided that I would NEVER have this issue again. Solder the wires on the spades, slip some heat shrink over the soldered spades and be done with it forever. I also advise you to adjust the horn's points, yes it has them. To do this you need to connect the horn to a battery and turn the small adjusted in and out until you get the highest sound volume. Once you think you have achieved this point give the horn a rest (20 minutes) and try again, adjust again and now you're there.

Adjusted horn, soldered wires, it doesn't get any better...

RS

Chuck — thanks for posting those pics of your reassembly. They are very helpful and you've done it in a neat way. If/when I have to strip the frame to re-paint it, that's the way I'll rebuild it.

Re: A cask of Amontillado...

RoadScholar said:

Adjusted horn, soldered wires, it doesn't get any better...RS

Click to expand...

Nevermore?

swooshdave said:

Commando74 said:

still need some insight on this issue..I was looking at Coco's mkIII rebuild and it looks like the cradle/swing arm assembly went in first with the rear iso installed in the cradle first.

any ideas?

Eric

Click to expand...

He may have to pull it back out to put the tranny?

Click to expand...

I didn't have to remove anything. I removed the top two cradle/motor studs and simply tilted the motor forward slightly and slipped the transmission in. Not the rightw ay I'm sure but I never seem to do anything the right way at first. :wink:

by maylar » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:19 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Adjusted horn, soldered wires, it doesn't get any better...RS

Nevermore?


Yup, one worry/concern that you can put behind you, do route the wires such that abrasion is not an issue.

RS

THX Dave
Left hand; I suspected as much but didn't want to try it until I got some advice. I bought a 1 1/2" 3/4 deep socket for the job altho it' :idea: s only deep enuf to get about half the square drive in, but I think it will work and I will have chain since I bought a new chain. That's a good tip- I probably would never have thought of it. I'm using a 1/2 wrench with adapter to 3/4 and a cheater bar. I'll go try it now and let you know.
Yes thanks; it worked. When I get to putting the clutch basket on I'll try your other tip. Right now I don't understand it, but when I get to it I'll probably see what you mean.

daveh said:

69750S — the large nut retaining the gearbox sprocket is indeed a left hand thread. First, do you have enough leverage with the tool you're using? Ideally, you need a pipe spanner or a 3/4 " drive deep socket. I have a length of old chain I wrap around the sprocket and grip it with a vise grips, then jam it against something sturdy, protecting the frame with sufficient padding. You will find a way to do it. You could also use a length of brass rod and a hammer, hitting the flat of the nut. Brass is softer that steel, so it should not damage it. Sometimes that is enough to get it loosened initially. You could try the 'heat spanner' which breaks down any Loctite, but don't do it for too long. I try to avoid heat and naked flame unless things are out on the bench. Otherwise, you could sacrifice the nut and use the barbarian hammer and chisel method! It works very well, and you just replace the nut (or re-use it — no-one will know except you! )

I use a chain wrench (very like a vise grips but with a length of chain attached to one end) to hold the clutch centre (I assume you mean the centre and not the basket). You can just get the chain to grip the centre, at a slight angle of course, but it works for me. It's also way cheaper than the factory tool. If your centre is not hardened, you could wrap some aluminium sheeting or copper shimstock around it and then hold it with the chain wrench. The clutch centre nut is a conventional R/H thread. Reverse procedure when reassembling, remembering not to tighten the nut too much to protect the circlip behind the clutch centre.

Dave

Click to expand...