Racing 2021

Steves said:

By the way Ralph is probably fettling in the shed, I am on the couch with a glass of red wine!

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I was in the shed but playing with a Ducati I have bought, the Norton is still in the van.

SteveA said:

I have the basic single adjustment Maxton forks.

They are brilliant and apart from 2 clicks of adjustment as advised by Cormac Conroy after discussing front end chatter on fast corner exits at a Snetterton 300 meeting in 2015, they are as set up by Maxton! Never had any more chatter either, anywhere.

Maxton advice at the time was, keep it simple unless you have the suspension skills! Judging by your reports.....like me.....a race suspension tech we are not!

If you really want to spend money they work well with Maxton shocks

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Agreed totally, I have Maxton shocks, and apart from making sure there was the same number of clicks on the rebound adjustment (which there was) they are as Maxton sent them out, although they may need a bit more spring now.

My forks are now back to the recommended start settings from a lost at sea period last year when chatter became a big problem for two race weekends, turns out that worn tyres cause chatter.

Suspension is witchcraft and until we learn to ride a lot faster than we do, probably fairly unimportant after a decent base setup is set.

Hi Steve's I'm with Steve!
Maxton offered me their all singing all dancing set up when they did my forks, a long time ago. I can still hear the laugh on the other side of the phone when I said no! I would get lost!
The good thing with the Maxtons is they came with all the details, set up, oil etc. Easy to get back to base. My only problems with them have been of my own making. Knackered front tyre! Super soft Dunlop, so good I didn't want to get rid of it. On the uphill section Starkeys to Macleans it used to "flutter" I knew it was moving, I could feel it hammering but it was just that unsettling feeling. Not sure if it would have taken more. Actually changed my fork oil & checked the settings! At the time the Maxtons work was expensive & took forever because they were BSB's contractor for a race class. Now I think they were one of my best buys & as I said at the time, if you don't notice the handling, its probably right.

Steve's
I should have said something about the rear shocks. When I started out racing I ran stock Norton forks, no fork brace & Hagon rear shocks. Hagons because they were the class sponsor (501 unlimited. Still holds my heart) Two because I had updated the Girlings on my road bikes with them. I used to watch the front twist & the forks walk but the bike always went where I wanted. The ride was as they say "firm" or even harsh. On the big girl the Seeley Mk2 I had problems with it running wide & the front end waggling. The thing I love about this engine is the drive out of corners. The very thing that was causing the problems. Then someone posted a photo & it showing my shocks compressed under acceleration & me walking sideways off the track. I fitted the Koni shocks as I had them & they were the right length. Nothing technical like spring rate etc just available. The change was spectacular! In fact I've never taken them off the bike. I have purchased some Falcon shocks (without springs) but I'm not sure if these are going on the triple or not. I have a friend who is very vocal about Falcons coming apart. I think it is a rare occurrence but as he says once in the wrong place would be enough.
If your wondering where my Maxton rear shocks are? They are on the Mk4 as the forks were originally lol.
The Mk4 now has Dommie length forks with Landsdowne dampers.

storm42 said:

Agreed totally, I have Maxton shocks, and apart from making sure there was the same number of clicks on the rebound adjustment (which there was) they are as Maxton sent them out, although they may need a bit more spring now.

My forks are now back to the recommended start settings from a lost at sea period last year when chatter became a big problem for two race weekends, turns out that worn tyres cause chatter.

Suspension is witchcraft and until we learn to ride a lot faster than we do, probably fairly unimportant after a decent base setup is set.

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Ralph, you don’t need new forks etc, just send your Ceriani replicas to Maxton for new internals. Job done in one simple step !

I am headed to Cadwell with new front tyre, new wheel bearings, shocks sorted and with spares and a spare brake disc, , i noticed a little run out on one, but it could be bearing related. Forks unmolested at original setting, will see where I am at on the track. It's easy to get carried away and see monsters around every corner which just exacerbates your problems through chasing, then you have lost your reference point. How do I know this?!!!

Nigel,
The forks are good now, the chatter turned out to be the tyre. Fresh oil and the base settings in them and all is good.

I did have a word with Maxton about the forks and they were keen to have a look as they hadn't seen László's forks before but I got the impression that they would just fit their cartridges, which wouldn't be the end of the world, but expensive.

At my level that would be a waste of money as László makes a very good product.

We are here at Cadwell just now and after a proper farce getting into the track on Friday. The sun came out for racing on Saturday and the supermonos that run with my class have all become axe murderers since Pembrey.

Looks like the weekend is going the same as the last meeting as my nemesis Mr Rusling was in fine form and won the race overall by a country mile, I was well down the field but, second in class, a nice little cup and a cap for my troubles. George wasn’t in the second race so I was gifted the class win, and getting faster too.

The heavens opened just after the racing had stopped and we had quite a spectacular evening of thunder and rain, the weather app was suggesting we would get more of that today but so far the sun is shining and all is good, no George so another class win. One more race to go.

Maylar, the bike.

Love it!

I can confirm we were very lucky with the weather, it was bad at times but not when racing. During the evening thunderstorm I sat in the car to take advantage of the Faraday cage principal. Anyway as it turned out no tents went up in a flash of lightning. Met up with Ralph but camped some way away, sounded a nightmare with the delayed entrance. Ended up a very busy paddock compared to Pembrey.
Bike behaved apart from blowing a fine mist of oil around the oil tank with reving to 7500 rpm. Very last race ended up with some oil on the back wheel. There is something wrong with the front end with pretty horrendous juddering on heavy braking, commented on by fellow riders, actually worked to my advantage at times as others kept their distance expecting a rider bike separation.
So will need to check, head bearings, brake pads and probably try and talk to someone who knows something about forks. Plus sort the oil tank. Some work to do before Donington.
Racing was actually very enjoyable, found myself with 2 other beginners at the back, one on a beemer 750, another on an Atlas 750 featherbed and myself. Out of our 4 races, won one, a second, a third and a dna (while leading), battery ran out of juice! I think I was probably the least talented of the three, but the old Maney short stroke flys on the straights if you twist it!

Steve, not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs etc… but are you sure your front wheel is balanced properly?

If it is, then next on my list would be you’ve got no damping in the forks.

Thanks for the input Nigel. Wheel balance is good, it was checked by tyre changer, I rechecked when the rotors went back on, actually does not need weights! If it was unbalanced you would feel it at high speed in the straights, Ralph described a similar problem caused by brake pad material, forks are a bit of a mystery to me so will get them looked at by an expert. I would just be fumbling about in the dark.

Steve, I was watching you at the hairpin and the pattering you had on the brakes looked like what I had when I had a dodgy disc. If you get the wheel off the floor and put a tie wrap round your brake lever and pull it just tight enough to put slight pressure on the discs, you will probably feel a tight spot when you turn the wheel, that or a slack spot. My problem was made much worse by using GPFAX pads but didn't go away when I changed to Ferodo pads, although it wasn't as bad.

If that turns out to be the problem, nothing you do to the forks will cure it, you will need to sort the discs out.

The last race for me was another class win but much slower as the motor was detonating badly so I was unable to give it the beans. It had been getting worse over the weekend and was down to not having any Avgas to mix with the VPower fuel, I started off with a tank of the 50/50 mix but after the first race I added 2 litres of VPower therefor diluting the mix. I really didn't think it would make much differance as the Avgas is 100 octane and the VPower is supposed to be 99 octane, this I now do not believe.

The second race was ok engine wise but after another 2 litre dilution for the 3rd race, the engine was starting to pink, in the last race another 2 litre dilution was making the engine bad enough for me to consider pulling in, but as they were now reducing the races to 5 laps due to lack of time, I just tried to be a bit gentle with the throttle and get to the end.

I had a quick look in the engine with my endoscope today and the pistons are still there but I may pull it down for a look before the next race just to be sure, it will be a problem if the pistons are damaged though as although I do have some pistons on order, they are being delayed due to a backlog created by Covid.

Anyway, comedy moment of the weekend, due to not being able to get into the circuit until 20:45 on Friday, I had missed technical control which meant a 06:45 start to the day to get signed on and the bike passed fit to race, when I put my leathers on, i thought they felt a bit strange in the back but a bit of a wriggle about and they felt just about good enough. I just figured that the back protector was a bit out of kilter.

After the practice, my next time out on track was to be after dinner so, as it was quite warm I got out of my leathers for comfort, as I took them off, a coat hanger fell out of the back. I am not sure why the wife had put it in there in the first place as it was one of those thin plastic things you get free with a new T and would have had no chance of holding the leathers but it gave a good number of folk in the paddock a good laugh.

The delay in getting into the track and subsequent rush in the morning had more serious consequences for my mate who had brought his RGB500 out for its first outing, his first problem was going to noise testing without putting water in it ( you cannot leave water in those things as it buggers up the magnesium cases ) then as he was about to go out he was stopped by a marshal who had seen water coming out of the bike. They thought it was coming out of the overflow at the rad cap and was just the bit that is there when you fill the tank. that threw them a curveball as it was the lower hose clip that hadn't been done up in the rush to get ready.

Half way round the second lap the thing spun up on the water that was coming out and spit him over the top. A broken collar bone, two broken bones in his foot and a Frankenstein hand means that a tick box check list will be drawn up for the next outing on the stinkwheels.

He did get off light with the bike though, scuffed the footrest, bent the gear leaver, scuffed the plastic on the end of the handlebar and a 4" diameter scuff on the lower fairing. The bike is one of the last factory RGBs and the frame number is No.1 so the potential for loosing a lot of money was high. Why do we do this to ourselves?

The motor permitting, the next race day will be at Donington park at the end of the month.

Was that the yellow RGB? If so saw him and bike sliding off the track at Park corner as I was a little way behind. Anyway speedy recovery I hope.

storm42 said:

I was in the shed but playing with a Ducati I have bought, the Norton is still in the van.

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It will punish you for that.

Steves said:

There is something wrong with the front end with pretty horrendous juddering on heavy braking, commented on by fellow riders, actually worked to my advantage at times as others kept their distance expecting a rider bike separation.

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And they might be right Steve, really is best to sort this before pressing on.

A mild out of balance that’s not bad on the straight can definitely show under braking. I know cos I’ve had it. But if you’ve checked yours yourself then it should be good. I’d never trust the 12 year olds in the shop!

Disc issues are a possible cause, but I’d expect you to feel pulsing or similar at the lever (perhaps your mind is understandably otherwise engaged at the crucial moment though).

Lack of damping would still be on my list to check though. What forks and internals do you have? Could it be as simple as too little oil? Or too thin oil? Or too old oil?

Last question from me is: are you sure it’s the front? The old racing adage goes something like ‘if you think it’s the front, it’s definitely the rear and vice versa’ or something like that.

Steves said:

Was that the yellow RGB? If so saw him and bike sliding off the track at Park corner as I was a little way behind. Anyway speedy recovery I hope.

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It was, I keep telling him the stinkwheels are the road to ruin, he had a TZ with him as well but didn't get to ride that, all in all an expensive weekend for him as he is self employed and has properly stiffened up now so no work.

I came looking for you after my last race but I am guessing you had gone.

gortnipper said:

It will punish you for that.

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yes, I think it may be trying to do that just now.

Fast Eddie said:

And they might be right Steve, really is best to sort this before pressing on.

A mild out of balance that’s not bad on the straight can definitely show under braking. I know cos I’ve had it. But if you’ve checked yours yourself then it should be good. I’d never trust the 12 year olds in the shop!

Disc issues are a possible cause, but I’d expect you to feel pulsing or similar at the lever (perhaps your mind is understandably otherwise engaged at the crucial moment though).

Lack of damping would still be on my list to check though. What forks and internals do you have? Could it be as simple as too little oil? Or too thin oil? Or too old oil?

Last question from me is: are you sure it’s the front? The old racing adage goes something like ‘if you think it’s the front, it’s definitely the rear and vice versa’ or something like that.

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Where I saw him at the hairpin, it looked like the brake was coming on and off, the front was like a jack hammer, I had it with mine when I first built the bike and it turned out to be the disc. Like you say though check everything feeling can be deceptive.

storm42 said:

Where I saw him at the hairpin, it looked like the brake was coming on and off, the front was like a jack hammer, I had it with mine when I first built the bike and it turned out to be the disc. Like you say though check everything feeling can be deceptive.

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That sounds pretty conclusive !