police Commandos and oil coolers?

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Hobot

Hobot

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How were Police Commandos used as regards policy of running while stopped? Did they shut down after some set interval to kick start on next call to move? Were they able to sit long idling at intersections say for a Royal event or hiding to catch speeders? Did they have oil coolers or cooked oil to wear out fast?
Were coolers added to the police/military Commandos doing duty in Arab middle east? If not who was bribbed how much for that dirty deal.
 
I don't know about your bike but on my bike the cylinder head, barrel and oil in the tank all reach the highest temperature at speed. The faster I go the higher they get. A stiff headwind or an uphill grade will raise the temps of all three to their highest point.
When I pull off the interstate and drive into stop and go traffic in town the temperatures all slowly drop. Long idling with no breeze at all or short bursts of hard throttle from light to light will cause the temperature to rise somewhat -but not to the point that it gets on a high speed run. Jim
 
Yep Norton temps rise and fall with throttle fuel burn amount, faster = hotter, but some apparently over heat while sitting still or going slow but Peel would not over heat sitting and idling a half hour I watched gauges and for smoke. Still wondering how Police Commandos handled rush hour duty or died trying.
Parade prepped Harleys have a thermostatic fan oil cooler installed.
 
They will overheat quickly at idle before they are broken in.
15 minutes at idle without a fan on a new motor and the cylinders will be at ring annealing temps. Jim
 
comnoz said:
I don't know about your bike but on my bike the cylinder head, barrel and oil in the tank all reach the highest temperature at speed. The faster I go the higher they get. A stiff headwind or an uphill grade will raise the temps of all three to their highest point.
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One of the magazines testing a newish Commando reported that on a hot day (+ 100 F) idling in a long traffic jam,
the Norton boiled its oil.

Don't know about bikes, since I don't have exhaust gas temp or cyl head temp gauges fitted,
but on (watercooled) autos on a really hot day with a TAILWIND the water temp can get pretty high at speed.
And makes the electric fan cut in.
Bike motors feel pretty hot doing this, but no thermometer to measure them with...

I fitted an oil cooler to an 850 when I first rebuilt it, in the late 1970s,
and found that with no thermostat the oil stayed quite cool on normal days.
Too cool ??

Not Norton, but I've had trail bikes idling along on a hot day for long periods, and the motor temps get pretty hot -
it starts 8 stroking when its too hot - fuel boiling in the carb ? - and when its REALLY hot it starts 12 stroking or even 16 stroking.
A quick run down the road to give it some cooling air soon restores it to running normally.
 
The hottest I Have seen Norton oil was on a Combat engine without the oil pickup moved to the rear. It was run on the racetrack until it started smoking too much from too much oil in the cases.
When we brought it in the oil in the tank was smoking. It got hot enough to melt the solder that held the pickup screen in the tank fitting -somewhere over 400 degrees. The screen was laying in the bottom of the tank -neatly stripped of all it's solder. Jim
 
Ugh only way I know is stick meters in and go from there. I suspect the Police might of ran 50 grade oil in winter and 60 in summer and kept them in warm garage. If meters tell me too Peel may be first water cooled Norton not in the rain. I've boiled the oil having a blast in air cooled Corvair for a smell and sound no one likes. As pointed out an oil cooler sitting still will heat soak too so problematic to make sense of those that find it does cool enough sitting still. One conflicting trade off of oil heat carrying is thinner oil collects, carries and releases more heat than thicker oil yet thicker oil can take more heat and still protect. TC runs oil cooler next to his foot forward pegs on crash bars so maybe he's on to something for the long hauls. Don't forget that the most talked about oil issue on flat tappet engines is the ZADP content and that takes over boiling temp surfaces to react, so much as I don't want a baby with a fever over 180'F
I want start up and low idle wear even less.
 
hobot said:
How were Police Commandos used as regards policy of running while stopped?
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They didn't do anything in New Zealand as far as Nortons went in the early 1970's.
My step brother was MOT ( 'motor cop) riding 650 Triumphs followed by a metallic blue Norton and then a 750/4, they got radio's, sirens , panniers and off they went.
 
NZ being renowned for its ferociously hot summers ?

Don't recall seeing anything much in this respect on police bikes, anywhere. ?
Although deeper sump kits for Guzzis and BMs are available,
as much for the extra oil capacity as anything.
Which may be where oil coolers gain some kudos, oil cooling abilities aside.
 
comnoz said:
The hottest I Have seen Norton oil was on a Combat engine without the oil pickup moved to the rear. It was run on the racetrack until it started smoking too much from too much oil in the cases.
When we brought it in the oil in the tank was smoking. It got hot enough to melt the solder that held the pickup screen in the tank fitting -somewhere over 400 degrees. The screen was laying in the bottom of the tank -neatly stripped of all it's solder. Jim
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If thungs was that hot, there would be a danger the layers in the big end shells could almost be melted out.... ??
 
Rohan said:
comnoz said:
The hottest I Have seen Norton oil was on a Combat engine without the oil pickup moved to the rear. It was run on the racetrack until it started smoking too much from too much oil in the cases.
When we brought it in the oil in the tank was smoking. It got hot enough to melt the solder that held the pickup screen in the tank fitting -somewhere over 400 degrees. The screen was laying in the bottom of the tank -neatly stripped of all it's solder. Jim
Click to expand...

If thungs was that hot, there would be a danger the layers in the big end shells could almost be melted out.... ??
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It didn't seem to hurt anything. The oil just got hot from being whipped by the crank.
After changing the black oil for fresh my employee spent several more hours making laps. As long as he took the pit lane at a slow speed every couple laps to let the sump clear he didn't have any more problems. Jim
 
I have owned 3 ex police interpols and none had oil coolers. Indeed if it was a factory fitting it would be listed in parts books. Courting controversy I doubt a well used commando would idle for long enough to overheat!
 
then a 750/4, they got radio's, sirens , panniers and off they went.
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Isnt that ' OFF THEY FELL ' . :P :D . :? .

The original fastback oil tank , which was the side panel - was said to have been replaced by the central one with cover , as in
the first summer in the U.s. and Aus. riders ' scalded ' their leg on them . If you lent it on your leg on a hot day after a good thrash
it BURNT , like a Exhaust Pipe .
 
Ok myjota thanx I can relax it wasn't lack of oil coolers that took Norton down. If Police use didn't destroy Commandos on first season use then coolers are more a personal choice. To some its just extra mass to others its proven wise protection. You know some clubs that are devoted to one specific brand's model, all seek to return them to all identical factory configuration as possible down to only one color allowed.
 
Stev; I know where you are comming from....What i know for sure is police R800 BWs would pull out there cylinder studs when running stood still, fast tickover to keep the battery charged , but any air cooled motor requires just that....AIR :!: Thermostatic fan ,better that oil cooler..oil retains heat well. liquid of choise in heat treatment for that reason.
 
An aircooled bike does not run that hot when just sitting and running and even though you're getting little to no cooling when stopped, it's not heating the engine up that much. The problem is that parts that wouldn't otherwise get hot (due to thermal conduction) get hot, like the oil lines, exhaust pipes, etc...

A cooler will not do much to help because all it'll do is add a small bit of oil to the system depending on where it's plumbed in. It's not going to cool the bike much standing still. I could see a norton's oil getting rather hot on the stock pushed setup or a hot setup and they could probably really benefit from something like a lockhart with a thermostat if touring or going under extensive use, but it'll only help a tiny bit when idling.
 
I have the impression that the vast majority of Interplods were sold in the UK so UK policing conditions in the 1970s have to be taken into account. Engines don't overheat when the rider has popped round the back of a transport caff for his free char and wad...nor did they get too warm pulling over district nurses in Morris Minors....and if there was a jam, a flash of blue lights was enough to clear the way. I suspect that Police bikes got less warm than the rest of ours did.
 
79x100 said:
I have the impression that the vast majority of Interplods were sold in the UK so UK policing conditions in the 1970s have to be taken into account. Engines don't overheat when the rider has popped round the back of a transport caff for his free char and wad...nor did they get too warm pulling over district nurses in Morris Minors....and if there was a jam, a flash of blue lights was enough to clear the way. I suspect that Police bikes got less warm than the rest of ours did.
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Thats what i recond, England is a cooler place, but here in Australia I run my oil cooler all year round and have done so for 39 years, its only our spring here now and already have had days over 35c and where I live the winter only gets down to about 6c at night and between 18c to 26c during the day, the coolers will only work with air flowing through them, but not good to idle any air cool bikes for long periods of time.

Ashley
 
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