Photo Contest - Commando Engines in Other Chassis - Race Bikes

acotrel said:

I think that bike needs two discs on the front, if it goes as fast as it looks. Or are all your race circuits fast and flowing with no sudden stops ?

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I have ridden that bike, Second time on it at Anglesey it was good enough to tuck in behind a 350TZ and stay there lap after lap, even if we were only playing......no issues with the brake.

cliffa said:

No excuses required Chris, that is beautiful, and the zorst is a piece of art. I've never seen one that followed the contours of the engine so closely and accurately.

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It is a Seeley hub.....and it doesn't have a floating disc like the Norton PR and Peter Williams used!

Fast Eddie said:

That disc was good enough for Peter Williams et al...

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Not sure Peter used a Seeley disc

Though I guess he had something similar on his Arter Matchless!

cliffa said:

No excuses required Chris, that is beautiful, and the zorst is a piece of art. I've never seen one that followed the contours of the engine so closely and accurately.

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I am not sure the picture shows it but it is separate pipes, and the one on the right got in the way of gearchanging for me......and we had to raise the seat to give me a chance!

acotrel said:

What was good enough back then. might not have been really good enough. You can only go as fast as you can stop. A Seeley Commando still has significant weight. Try it yourself - how fast can you stop your bike when it is in full flight, especially when something gets within your braking distance when you are travelling in the same direction. If he stops suddenly and you crash - who wins ? At least the disc on the bike in the picture is not chromed. The brake on the Mk3 Commando is an insult.
I raced at about the time PW was racing, it was just after pudding basin helmets were banned - most bikes still had drum brakes, so even a mediocre disc was excellent.

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A lot of people race very happily with single discs Al.

Brakes are like engine power, kinda doesn‘t matter how much you’ve got, it’s how much you use that counts. Until a single disc is not good enough, you have no advantage adding a second. You just add weight. Rotating and unsprung weight too.

I had a single PR set up on the 906cc Nourish Dresda in my avatar, I’m no Rossi, but I recall regularly out braking a guy on a lovely big Norton with a twin PR discs set up!

As to your point about ‘what if someone gets inside your braking distance’ well, if they really are inside your braking distance then unless you steer around them, you’re gonna hit them... irrespective of how good your brakes are !!

I guess why you‘ve provoked me on this one Al is that Chris actually races his bikes. Regularly. And unwanted critique from someone who hasn’t raced in 7-8 years is unlikely to be helpful to him.

SteveA said:

Not sure Peter used a Seeley disc

Though I guess he had something similar on his Arter Matchless!

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Well, it is a Norvil PR fork slider.

And an AP caliper, so in terms of functionality and performance it’s gonna be as per the many PR Commandos he rode.

Thanks for the replies guys.
Cliffa I brought the bike in bits from my friend Rob James, he was one half of Pipecraft. They were open meggas with little caps still to be added. He was not happy about cutting up my Jim Lee silencers & adding them to his system! If I had known Donington ran an unsilenced meeting I would have kept them as they were. When the bike was first built we started it on rollers between 2 vans & it made my ears bleed. 2 Manxes!
Unfortunately no longer fitted as even I managed to ground them at Lydden! Chessons drift touched down & slid. More unsettling in the head than anything. Had to have a plate welded on as I kept doing it & they were wearing through. The pipes are made for that bike & don't fit anything else. More trophys for the garage wall. Rob being an ex racer said 18 inch wheels, first attempt, not bad. Saying that, we couldn't see how we could gain the extra clearance. They are Dick Hunt Seeley wheels. Although it's worn a twin disc Norvil front end when the forks went to Maxton. I took one disc & caliper off as I noticed the difference with the weight & the longer Commando forks.
Gear linkage, I never had Steve's problem but then I don't seem to notice the bottom of my boots melting on the pipe Again first set of levers & footrest.
Al, I'm not good at all the chicanes that have been added. Don't like the naggery bits but I'm not outbraked if we are running at the same speed towards a corner. A smaller rider on my bike would be even better. My problem is hanging on! Big guy on a small bike.
And let's be honest. It's all about fast open sweeping corners & driving away hard on the throttle using all that torque away from the slow ones.
Please all of you make the effort to ride a race track. Parading with friends, racing! Nothing much like it.
Chris

Fast Eddie said:

Well, it is a Norvil PR fork slider.

And an AP caliper, so in terms of functionality and performance it’s gonna be as per the many PR Commandos he rode.

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Not quite, it is a Seeley fork leg! Or it should be!

Though if you look closely as I have just done, it could be that Chris is losing out on about 1/4" of pad sweep!

The difference will be disc diameter, Seeley disc is 11" diameter as per standard road Commando disc, and a Norvil disc is 11.5" diameter hence the comment about losing 1/4" pad sweep) I think some Norvil discs were even 12", and whatever size the Norvil disc set up includes a floating disc.

Floating discs are otherwises barred from classic racing, on the basis they have an advantage over non-floating discs.

On the other hand, a Commando will weigh more!

But it is also true that the Norvil disc itself is heavy even with an alloy centre, as it has more parts.

As for pads, I think there is something in what Al said about old asbestos based pads being more effective than modern non asbestos pads....that is until the most recent generations like EBC GPFAX and the Bendix pads that are now sold as SBS! Ask Storm!

Fast Eddie said:

I had a single PR set up on the 906cc Nourish Dresda in my avatar, I’m no Rossi, but I recall regularly out braking a guy on a lovely big Norton with a twin PR discs set up!

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I used to say I could outbrake PRs with the Norvil disc on my Fastback which only had a 2LS....thruth was I could not stop the thing after 4 laps!

Fast Eddie said:

A lot of people race very happily with single discs Al.

Brakes are like engine power, kinda doesn‘t matter how much you’ve got, it’s how much you use that counts. Until a single disc is not good enough, you have no advantage adding a second. You just add weight. Rotating and unsprung weight too.

I had a single PR set up on the 906cc Nourish Dresda in my avatar, I’m no Rossi, but I recall regularly out braking a guy on a lovely big Norton with a twin PR discs set up!

As to your point about ‘what if someone gets inside your braking distance’ well, if they really are inside your braking distance then unless you steer around them, you’re gonna hit them... irrespective of how good your brakes are !!

I guess why you‘ve provoked me on this one Al is that Chris actually races his bikes. Regularly. And unwanted critique from someone who hasn’t raced in 7-8 years is unlikely to be helpful to him.

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I raced old shit regularly for about 12 years when I was a kid, and crashed too many times to be stupid in my old age. These days if or when I race, I race safe, fast and do it easily. It takes me 5 laps of Winton to get back up to race speed, even if I went there tomorrow. Having a powerful front brake is as important as having a powerful motor. If your brake is mediocre, the first time you head for the boonies in a corner will be slightly faster than you will race. The better your brake, the hotter you can go into corners. With a Commando, it is all about cornering because you will often get passed towards the ends of the straights.

SteveA said:

I used to say I could outbrake PRs with the Norvil disc on my Fastback which only had a 2LS....thruth was I could not stop the thing after 4 laps!

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You obviously know what the word 'ANXIETY" means. If you are considering building a race bike, the first two things you should think about are the gear box and the front brake. Engine power is not so important. Most motors can be made to go fast enough to ne competitive in their capacity class.

With my Seeley 850, the motor is fast enough to keep up with the leaders, and that is all it has to be, the rest is in the handling, gearing and braking. I've found that with the Seeley, I can out brake and ride under the other guys in corners and do it easily. I'm not bragging, but if I race again, I will win. I know what is there in the races and what it can do. I'm just stating a fact. The 1100cc , methanol-fuelled CB750s are fast down the straights, but they run wide in corners. The last time I raced I was ahead of all of them at turn two, then had a problem which will not happen again.
.

SteveA said:

I thought this picture taken at Carole by Michel Delarue was brilliant.....my Rickman Commando just happens to be in it...View attachment 16555

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Just noticed that my leathers are reflected in the fuel tank......I don't recall polishing it, but I guess I must have!

The thing I really like about road racing is you can go as fast as your bike can go and stop, and you can use it in the way God intended without bloody stupid cops harassing you. That is why I went road racing in the first place. If I had been 20 years older, I would have become a Spitfire pilot. Most of those guys ended up with diabetes due to stress. But doing that might have been the ultimate rush. Can you imagine machine-gunning a Focke-Wulf 190 ? - Bikes are the same, but without the guns. During WW2 the air force liked to recruit motorcyclists.