Oil valve solution to oil falling to crankcase

concours said:

Engine & Transmission :: Engine Upper :: Oil Feed Pipes :: Anti Wet Sump Oil Pipe Tap With Switch - Magneto or Coil Ignition Systems

Anti Wet Sump Oil Pipe Tap With Switch - Magneto or Coil Ignition Systems A solution to a frequent problem of wet sumping. Available in two types - please selection option MAG TYPE: Magneto ignition engines - closed circuit - Tap OFF (to earth the magneto
www.feked.com www.feked.com
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This looks like a nice solution for my wet sump problem. My concern is that the valve reduces the 3/8" pipe bore down to 1/4". Maybe not enough oil flow to the engine?
 
After dealing with a 'restored' 1956 ES2, a long story about that bike but it came to me with a new oil pump, the engine wet sumped and leaked oil badly. Going through all the problems i took the oil pump apart to check all was well in there. It was, apart from the fact that the feed gears were .001" shorter than the case. (measured with a 0 to 1 outside Micrometer and Depth Mic)
This pump had done approx 900 miles. I lapped the body on a cast iron plate to close the clearance down to zero and when the pump was assembled you had to use a spanner to turn the pump spindle (pump assembled/stripped a few times to check this) When oil is introduced this resistance gets easier
I'm of the opinion that the new pumps are made with a clearance that allows the pump to be turned with the fingers, (i.e. too wide) The radial clearance between the gear teeth and the case is quite close, better than an old pump but the slight gap between the cover and the body allows for wet sumping.
Back to the ES2, pump and etc refitted and wet sumping virtually eliminated, not stopped totally but easily can go 2 months between starts. Whereas before it lost the tank contents in a matter of a few days.
 
robs ss said:
Got what looks to be a good unused timing cover (NOS) for $150USD and a Steadfast pump for $300USD.
They're on their way to AMR for them to weave their magic.
So $550USD for the work which will yield a spare timing cover and oil pump.
I will report on a, hopefully good, difference once fitted.
Cheers
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If it's not a MK III timing cover, have the PRV modification done too.
 
eo1bart said:
This looks like a nice solution for my wet sump problem. My concern is that the valve reduces the 3/8" pipe bore down to 1/4". Maybe not enough oil flow to the engine?
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Have a look at the crankcase oil inlet hole, not much different from 1/4" and as long as it only for short distances the frictional losses will not amount to much.
 
Thw ISO9000 definition of quality is 'fit for purpose' with no requirement relating to 'obvious attention to detail'. Most products these days fit within the ISO9000 definition. However, I have never heard oif a Japanese motorcycle which wet-sumpted. Nor have I heard of a BSA or Triumph doing it.
What about the 961 - are they maintaining the good old Norton tradition ?
Some things are what they are., so I never worry about things which I cannot change.
I am 81 - the main reason I have reached that age is my interest in doing things. Road racing an old motorcycle is better than sex and Commando 850 motors are the best.
If you are bored and worry too much, you will die early.
I am bringing-up 3 young kids who are girls. I have told them that in their lives they can choose their careers, but they should always choose to do things in which they have a genuine interest. The youngest one wants to become a shopper. She is the smartest of the three.
ISO9000 is about consumerism, continual improvement and showing preference. ISO9000 began during WW2 with British Standard BS 4891, and the UK Ministry of Technology. The Americans taught it to the Japanese.
The British obviously did not believe their own bullshit. But Triumphs these days are pretty good.
 
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When my Seeley 850 sits with a full oil tank, it always has a bolt stuffed up the oil feed line. My problem is I might forgrt to re-attach it prior to starting the motor.
 
Tthe thing which probably stuffed British quality was their class system, and we have created a similar situation in Australia. ISO9000 Quality Management Systems are based upon continual improvement. The Japanese are able to do it better. Industrial democracy is not a problem for them.

 
acotrel said:
Tthe thing which probably stuffed British quality was their class system, and we have created a similar situation in Australia. ISO9000 Quality Management Systems are based upon continual improvement. The Japanese are able to do it better. Industrial democracy is not a problem for them.

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Al
two of your last three posts have zilch to to with the thread - how about staying on-topic?
 
The answer to wet sumping with a Commando engine is, there is probably no answer unless you can fit a plunger pump. Nortons probably only ever thought of motorcycles in terms of the Manx.
My friend's Manx had a tap in it's oil feed line. If it had vibrated to the off position, or been kicked, it might have cost him a dollar.
The British did not think like the Japanese, and still don't. Australian's still buy on price rather than quality.
Anyone who buys a British bike is probably on a nostalgia kick. The whole British economy is probably based upon tourists' nostalgia.
 
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acotrel said:
When my Seeley 850 sits with a full oil tank, it always has a bolt stuffed up the oil feed line. My problem is I might forgrt to re-attach it prior to starting the motor.
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An old mate had a very nice Velocette 500 that wet sumped so he replaced the drain plug with a valve to aid draining. One afternoon he flew past me while I was in the car, and small drops of something hit the bonnet and windscreen that looked suspiciously like oil. Trying to get his attention made him think I was trying to race him and he took off. I caught up with him as he was putting the bike on the main stand in his garage and just as it nipped up with no real damage.
 
robs ss said:
Got what looks to be a good unused timing cover (NOS) for $150USD and a Steadfast pump for $300USD.
They're on their way to AMR for them to weave their magic.
So $550USD for the work which will yield a spare timing cover and oil pump.
I will report on a, hopefully good, difference once fitted.
Cheers
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First update - good news.
It's exactly one week ago I ordered the new pump and timing cover.
Not only have the parts been delivered to AMR but the modifications are complete (including Mikes offer to fit seals and supply gaskets)
The parts are now on their way to me (USPS) - likely to be the longest part. :rolleyes:
Thanks Mike at AMR!
Cheers
 
robs ss said:
First update - good news.
It's exactly one week ago I ordered the new pump and timing cover.
Not only have the parts been delivered to AMR but the modifications are complete (including Mikes offer to fit seals and supply gaskets)
The parts are now on their way to me (USPS) - likely to be the longest part. :rolleyes:
Thanks Mike at AMR!
Cheers
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Tracking number has mine due to be delivered to AMR today.
 
robs ss said:
Hopefully one of you smart blokes will have the answer at their fingertips...
How much oil "should" be in the sump when you shut down the engine?
Cheers
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My guesstimate is about 250 ml. The scavenge pump port is about 25 mm above the sump plug.

Slick
 
eo1bart said:
This looks like a nice solution for my wet sump problem. My concern is that the valve reduces the 3/8" pipe bore down to 1/4". Maybe not enough oil flow to the engine?
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Not to worry. If the length of the reduced section is less than 10 times the diameter of the main section, the reduction in flow will be less than 5%, and likely to be little as 2%.

In your case, main section is 3/8 inch dia. and 10 x = 3.75 inches, so if the valve is less than that length, no worries.

Slick
 
For me the breather modification is plenty good, it makes sure the pressure in the motor can't reach a point that the seal will blow. And it will also help to return the oil in the crankcase quickly, but not before my cam and lifters gets soaked in oil from the first revolution. IMHO
 
robs ss said:
First update - good news.
It's exactly one week ago I ordered the new pump and timing cover.
Not only have the parts been delivered to AMR but the modifications are complete (including Mikes offer to fit seals and supply gaskets)
The parts are now on their way to me (USPS) - likely to be the longest part. :rolleyes:
Thanks Mike at AMR!
Cheers
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Dan1950 said:
Tracking number has mine due to be delivered to AMR today.
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I got an e-mail from Mike at AMR, my parts are in hand and I'm 4th in the queue.
 
baz said:
400ml sounds excessive
Have you done the usual oil pump backing plate refacing etc ?
I have a MK3 timing cover on my 750 it takes several weeks before I need to worry about it sumping
Even if it does wet sump I have a reed valve in the timing cover that stops the oil seal blowing out in the primary side crankcase when I press the starter button
It soon levels off in the oil tank
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I have revised that figure down as it included the oil normally in the sump while running (180ml for me).
So it's 220ml in a week - and consistent.
We'll see what it is after the AMR mod.
 
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